Timcast IRL – Steven Crowder Joins To Discuss StopBigCon

one of the biggest stories last week was Stephen Crowder’s stop big con announcement the daily wires response Candice owes Candace Owens then came on this show gave her response Stephen Crowder released a video explaining his response to their response and now we have an opportunity to hear Stephen Crowder’s side of everything and this is an important story a lot of people have asked me why does this matter it’s drama between media companies and I think the questions being asked right now could determine the shape of independent alternative anti-establishment and corporate media in general moving forward is it going to more take the shape of the traditional Hollywood System but with better views or is it going to be a new system that makes sure the individuals are empowered and can maintain themselves through the issues of censorship and run their own companies after any contracts change there’s a lot of questions here more than just that and so joining us tonight to talk about all of this is of course we’ve got Stephen Crowder yeah thank you sir that’s a little roomy can is there a way for me I should have done it before and I’m an idiot yeah we don’t Allen can do it from his uh the new studio has the modules where you can control but we’re I also got these vegetables I’m like hitting the table so if I look like an idiot it’s probably you can lower this on the right side there’s a lever yeah it’s the it’s the front lever I was gonna think I’m super tiny yeah now you’re short I’ll adjust your camera but uh uh uh and also you brought yourself Gerald Morgan yeah now officially uh just became CEO in the last couple of weeks there of us we’ll we’ll have to adjust these cameras so you know Serge uh misses flight I guess is that what happened uh yeah sounds like it so we’re completely just yeah uh there you go all right I just split the difference is that okay I just kind of went up I don’t think you need to adjust it no it is a turn it’s almost like one of those things where it’s like when Santa met the M M’s yeah seeing you in person oh right but they’re gone no they’re good they have a lesbian Eminem no no they got rid of it off now just now okay we’re gonna talk about that I suppose she’s a lesbian Eminem that she was so fat before we get started because she’s eating other female M M’s I’m not saying lesbians are fat right sugar big bones eat each other she was big boned all right let’s do this before we get started head over head over to timcast.com become a member support our work uh as a member you’re helping us not just run the company but also with our cultural Endeavors and the weird things we do opening a coffee shop we’re gonna have physical locations of course I did the weird skateboard thing where I got that company’s logo they abandoned because they were woke and we’re gonna do a lot of fun stuff but as a member you’ll get access to uncensored members only shows from this podcast Tim Castell as well as cast Castle uh the Vlog it tells from the important world and we’re gonna have an uncensored members only after uh this show as well which will be up around 11 or so p.m we record that after we wrap the live portion so if you want to check out the uncensored version go to timcast.com become a member don’t forget to smash that like button subscribe to this channel share the show with your friends and uh we also have lucrutkowski joining us today hey guys uh today I’m wearing my make America Florida shirt which you could get on the best politicalshirts.com because I’m moving to Florida tomorrow sorry guys but the daily wire gave me the a deal I couldn’t refuse I’m leaving no no I’m joking I’m kidding I’m I’m in Arizona because Carrie Lakes no no no I’m fiercely fiercely independent I just launched a new business called I’m the real og.com so if you’re in Florida I want to link up with me and want to check out my new business I’m the real og.com check it out if you’re a real technology we got that domain I know said it was five dollars the real OG the real OG no no I’m the real OG though because it’s not a pot shop therailod.com is like a Spam website so don’t go don’t go on that one it like hacks people’s computers oh my gosh don’t go on that one I’m the real og.com some people by the way can I say one thing by the way before we do we should turn Steven’s mic up a little bit I was gonna say because because you’re coming a little bit hot in my ears and when you’re saying OG which I’m really happy to hear but it was loud so do you want to maybe bring Steven’s headset down a little and a little and one thing which camera am I talking into there watching the live stream on my YouTube channel or Rumble it’s only going to be the first 20 minutes there’s really no other way to reach you like with a post and then just head over to cast IRL right youtube.com if you head over there now if you can but in 20 minutes it’s not gonna be here or timcast.com we just have it embedded on the front I’m glad you guys are here uh the drama personal stuff I’m not really interested in as much as the contracts themselves I’ve been thinking about this since 2006 seven eight like I’m similar to You Stephen can I say Maker Studios yeah I was only verbally we would hang out me and Ben Donovan and um Dan zapinski up in a hotel room talking about creating a union for web actors right and it’s evolved into now it never really happened and now I think now I think there’s a technical solution we don’t need to make paperwork necessarily because I mean I don’t like trusting people with paperwork anyway personally I mean my problem isn’t so much with with paper itself you don’t like it no my problem isn’t so much papers I remember I was with maker and then it kind of morphed into something where you know the whole idea right was they were going to help protect you get better advertising rates and then you know I said some things like hey you know and we just we can’t be repping you anymore they turn into Studio something I think they got purchased was that what it was there were a couple of them right that were that were out there um there was like collab Studios was that the one that was called I don’t know we’ll get to know that out I want to make sure everybody knows kellen’s here uh what’s up everybody it’s Kellen filling in for surge uh let’s get started guys yeah so uh surge misses flight I guess but uh we’re all here and we’re we’re stringing together with duct tape and uh kellen’s not duct tape no he’s good yeah he’s more alike they’re throwing him to the bus right off the bat it’s that metallic Airline tape oh that’s better yeah okay people see it and they get scared dog crap your duct tape yeah the fancy Airline duct tape I’ll take it reflective all right let’s let’s take let’s wait go ahead let’s jump into this first story we have this uh stop bigcon.com yeah louder with Crowder stop bitcon stay in mug club or join a new enter your email below so let’s let’s get started and talk about uh from the beginning you uh most people are familiar with the story I want to make sure as we get this started I’ll make this I want to make sure there’s important uh contextual understanding people have asked why it’s so important that and why why is some why is everybody interested in the story why have we talked about it so much first I will say well I’m biased I worked for big corporations I’ve run my own company I have uh this this passion for how the media companies operate how I operate my media company my vision for the future and I know so much about this it’s something I care about when I hear about it I’m just driven to want to understand more talk about it share these ideas but it’s more than just that I just want to make sure that my Bice is clear it’s that I for one have taken issue with the establishment media The Establishment the traditional media systems how they operate with contracts and so trying to build something different I see what uh what Crowder announced and what he’s talking about and I I ideologically agree so this could this this conversation could change the shape of how media moves forward as the corporate media system is dying firing people laying people off and an independent ecosystem is emerging with these these networks which which form is it going to take it could it could go completely corporate could go completely independent it could be a mix of both but there’s a conversation that is extremely important moving forward so we’re hanging out with Stephen Crowder and Gerald of course we’ll talk about the business side more I don’t really uh I don’t really take care of the finances as much uh but what’s the story here what’s the show well first off let me let me set something up off the bat I want to make sure everyone here knows like I know that you guys have made very clear that you’re monetized on YouTube because you believe that you can fight against big Tech by sort of operating to some degree within the rules but you’ve been very transparent about it and so I don’t want you to think that that is at all the same as what I have a problem with and uh I mean we can go back to a few things look it really comes down to what’s right it really comes down to what the truth is and this isn’t it’s been a long time coming Gerald actually came on a CEO because we’re being batted around so long this is this is years and years in the making I get the the point with corporate media the issue that I have with many in the conservative side of this fear is uh is the fundamental uh misleading and dishonesty that’s what I have a problem with and you see that here as a story took place um kind of it started right where we release this video we didn’t and it was just by Design didn’t name names because there could be a Litany of contracts that are similar to this a lot of them are often verbal offers we we mentioned it could have been Fox News probably wouldn’t have knew and and they’re the corporate monolith there’s about you know four or five uh so we have four or five offers and then there are other investors that come into the space who just want to dump in a whole bunch of money um you know daily wire here out of themselves um and I understand that people saying well people knew who it was well that’s because some of the people who were under those contracts said yeah I recognize those contracts and Candace said on this show I recognize the terms from my contract here’s the thing I said this is wrong penalizing conservatives and I believe this to my absolute core penalizing conservatives on behalf of big Tech while taking money from people who are paying you investing in you to fight big Tech that is what they’re investing in that is what Mud Club is investing in that’s what subscribers are investing in while simultaneously penalizing Services fundamentally wrong I had that conversation said look just please give me your word you’re not going to be doing this with other people who as you well know when you start in this industry don’t know better immediately after that right the conversation was Crowder is making a big deal as a dick about money right basketball money 50 million dollars a year was the implication which you know is not true uh people aren’t saying that now that’s not what people have a problem with what people have a problem with I understand is you know the idea of a phone call and now the narrative has shifted to betrayal of a friend um that’s what people want to say I say last straw I say this is something that I’ve watched experienced for years try to give every possible out to do the right thing and have tried to do the right thing in the way that we run our own business um saw the gas flooding the bully tactics that take place behind the scenes of other creators and knew it wouldn’t be myself so now the narrative shifts too how how could you record a phone call betray a friend hold on a second it was just about money it was just this is just business and now it’s hey we’re really good friends well which is it I mean you have to you kind of have to pick a Lane right are we good friends are you sending out a boilerplate contract that you demand of everybody according to what they say they have 110 penalties on behalf of big Tech and the issue with that is that’s dishonest the tactic of the left it’s a tactic the same kind of tactic that you see from the left of gaslighting where if you let me ask you this real quick yeah I just want to clarify you said 110 penalty yeah you can see the contract right there if you add them all up so you will because yeah yeah yeah it’s a fair point yeah yeah yeah and this is the issue it you know look I made it clear it wasn’t about me it’s about other people it’s about this being the fundamental practice and by the way it’s not just daily wire to be clear this happens in this incestuous sphere across the board what would you do this is my question real quick let me ask just just uh my concern is if people aren’t familiar with the total context you leave the blaze or in the process of your Fielding offers you receive a contract a term term not a contract which uh people are semantically predecessor to a contract but which is basically the terms they’re offering for a contract some people have argued but the point is yeah they basically said you will be penalized 25 if you get a strike no if you’re demonetized if you’re demonetized then another 20 if there’s a strike then another 20 I don’t remember the numbers for Facebook for Spotify but there’s also another penalty if your sponsors get boycotted there’s also another penalty if you don’t agree to ten percent uh if If you deny 10 of the sponsors which is probably like you we probably accept one out of five sponsors but let me just kind of so do this timeline really quickly for people who are trying to understand what’s going on it’s basically the contract you received specifically at line terms I don’t know if it matters said YouTube you don’t put something in a term sheet that you don’t want on a contract right no said YouTube Apple Spotify and face Facebook yeah specifically if these big tech companies are upset with you we dock your pay yes that’s an important decision it’s not even dock his pay I want to be very clear here this is a production house this is our budget that gets docked Stephen is not just taking this is not basketball where you pay Kyrie Irving to go out and shoot hoops right sure you’re paying an entire team of people to produce before we get to that before we get to like the finances yeah um let me ask you this if someone publicly was going and by the way I’m not going to be doing the personal stuff I’m not going to be coming in here calling anybody a right sending out Hatchet people um I understand why Candice was mad honestly I understand I understand why she was I’d probably be mad too so um I don’t think it gives an excuse to go and talk the way like every girl does who gets their husband into a fight at a bar but I understand why she was upset um if you had the ability of someone’s going out saying hey you’re you’re a difficult person who only cares about the money and uh that you’re a and you had the opportunity to clear it in because it was verifiably untrue which now no one is arguing you doing how else do would people switch from it was about a 50 million dollar salary to oh recording a phone call just James do we allow when James O’Keefe does it is it only when corruption is on the side of the left and here’s the issue is I’ll tell you who this hurts the dishonesty I’m not just saying daily wire this is really this is about the entire movement as a whole there are a lot of practices that go on and it hurts the sponsors hurts the creators hurts the viewers hurts the investors and by investors with us you know it’s entirely Mud Club it’s people who pay to subscribe we don’t make a dime off of YouTube we have it for many years and it hurts what I if if you believe what we say we believe the movement in the country as a whole so that right there right is fundamentally this and the gas lining still keeps taking place Candice Owens on this show said um hey we all follow the same guidelines right we all follow Crowder does too that’s verifiably false now so you can publicly audit this we’ve had four strikes right in the last since May I think 2021 to October 2022. one was the Makai Bryant one was a sketch with Alex Jones that one’s guilty one was as charged one was him uh quoting the CD by the way none of this will get you in trouble because you can say this now him quoting the CDC bringing up the CDC numbers on flu deaths for children versus coven we were saying this is an interesting sign clients right that kova kills more senior citizens but for some reason is significantly less lethal to young people to infants that’s science accepted now so you won’t get a strike but that was one of the strikes the other was when we had Carrie Lake on in a gubernatorial election four how many have taken place from daily wire you guys zero now here’s the thing I’m not saying it’s a badge of honor I’m not saying that it’s a badge of honor to be suspended if if they came out and said look look we demand as Jeremy said in his 55 minute video we demand that all of our creators follow these rules that YouTube and Facebook set through punitive practices in mandating of our creators to do so and Crowders a little bit more of a rebel you know what he’s been banned for four times and that’s just that’s not the same kind of that’s not a problem the problem is saying that we all follow the same rules because here’s so that’s all publicly verifiable now I could tell you I could tell you guys that behind the scenes have had many conversations with senior YouTube Executives who say you know we might be able to get you remonetized if you kind of play ball like he’s got daily wire and insert other people here I could tell you that but would you believe me would have to provide receipts I can tell you that that takes place that hurts the creators out there who they end up you know hitting a glass ceiling that has set the sandbox that has mandated their creators the same thing happens um with sponsors let me let me ask you a quick what does that mean play yeah paraphrasing um titles subjects not talk about this subject or not talk about it in this way yeah uh maybe so often don’t use these words you know maybe change this a little bit this happens a lot right behind the scenes and that makes it impossible for independent content creators the same thing happens by the way so that’s that’s gaslighting that you see right there we all follow the same rules it was about money then it’s about a phone call with sponsors look but if I could ask you did YouTube reach out to you and say hey do you want to play ball with us yeah we have conversations all the time matter of fact I can tell you that there’s here’s the thing I’m not going to be providing receipts to people who don’t want to be involved right there’s a difference between single party consent State and wiretapping you don’t rope people in who are victims but if it’s someone if it’s an entity that you believe is predatory that’s the difference there are good people at YouTube there are some good people there who want but their hands are tied and guess what everyone else’s hands are tied if you say hey we’re all trying to fight this system that exists but you’re not you’re mandating that you exist within the system only one person is saying hey you know what if you want to be monetized and you don’t that’s fine and one is saying you have to fit into this box very important context to this is uh obviously after you put out the first video I’ve talked with a bunch of my friends and they said look you know the daily while I was trying to run a business if he gets if he gets banned off YouTube how are they going to sell ads how are they going to do the sponsorships where his views are gone yeah and I’ve seen people tweet all of Crowder’s views come from YouTube anyway so he’d basically be unmonetizable if he was banned and then I point out first of all that’s that’s just categorically false yes I’m true because Rumble exists and he streamed there for the first time today and this is an important context the contract you were offered says Facebook Apple uh I said YouTube Apple Facebook Spotify but it didn’t mention any of your views from any other any other platforms and there’s Google podcasts they get they get views I know the numbers obviously it’s not the same as an apple but it’s interesting to me that for a lot of people like Dan bongino for instance had more subscribers on Rumble than YouTube yeah it’s interesting then that their attitude is if you’re banned from YouTube It’s a 20 fee reduction which you mentioned includes your your status 25 and then that’s right 25 and then another 20. it’s 45 in other words for us right off the bat and this is the thing I said like what is this is this an accident like you know in other words okay we’re good but let’s make this but hold on a second does anyone here does anyone have a problem do you do you not believe me when I say we haven’t been monetized on YouTube for three years you all know all right of course literally we’re not that close zero days or did you have so what happened is we were demonet how many years ago then they yeah and then demonetized again we’re like what happened and they’re like yeah actually no sorry you’re demonetized again I was like well skunked again so what did we do to get monetized basically an answer right I want to make sure this point is made clear for everybody because this is a very important part of the argument um when I heard it if the point is you can’t sell ads or build an audience because YouTube banned you and that’s it but you’re getting 85 or more views on Rumble the question is why no penalty for getting banned from Rumble why is Rumble not a consideration in the contract at all and why don’t they simply say comparable views instead of the platform like if for every million views per day you lose we document I can answer you that question exactly so what happens fundamental to the business model and I was informed of that it is fundamental in other words there are plenty of options out there right he can tell you I get excited when I I walk out and go hey how many people are tuning in Live on YouTube how many on Rumble they go oh it’s tips there are more people on Rumble sure I’ve been on YouTube for a long time since 2006 but it doesn’t mean that they don’t change right and the issue is I think it’s a great thing to use these platforms there’s a huge difference by the way you know between being monetized and being on the platform yeah but ultimately if we believe what we say we have to be trying to get to the point where we know that fast forward five years you can’t speak the truth on YouTube certainly not if you want to be monetized but there’s this jockeying for position with people who they see as competition and the issue here that I’ve always made clear is the locking in of these punitive contracts that mandate and enforce big Tech policies and guidelines as a matter of business and that hurts creators and the same thing by the way when we’re talking about misleading practices with sponsors there’s no problem right and this is all publicly verifiable I want you guys able to audit this so there don’t have to be as many receipts provided you Market your your channel right I think we probably have some ads running right now like Spotify like yeah if you like this show tune on Spotify um but there’s a big difference we know that there’s a huge problem in our industry of pay to play now you can do that that’s fine if you want to grow your numbers but what what is that so pay-to-play means that you can buy views right you can pay to play you can run your video as a pre-roll ad and people see that number but really A lot of them are 14 second views Eight Second views but it still clicks that counter the closest Apples to Apples comparison that you could do right now is you could go out and take like let’s say not this controversy because there’s cross-pollination but Benjamin is a huge show of course he is but go take some videos there right now that have a million plays go month after month take a bunch of them look at the likes look at the comments take videos from my channel it’s comparable Place take them with eight hundred thousand six hundred thousand place because we converted them a lot to rumble look at the likes look at the comments it’s startling because it’s a lot easier to buy plays than it is to buy likes and comments that’s not a problem well are you saying that the daily wire is buying views for their company I’m saying that they run the videos this happens not just daily wire to be clear the shop big con is designed because it’s entire industry and what happens is yes these views get inflated there’s nothing wrong with running ads to increase the video count the problem is this when you when that is used to then go out and set sponsorship rates and then this is what happens with creators when you sit down with sponsors and these are hard earned dollars right A lot of them are mid-sized companies you run them on the show and they say yeah but you know what we didn’t get our money’s worth and this person is the number one show because they go out and they say that they have these numbers and they set what happens they drop those rates across the board which hurts everybody or they pull out all together now you can publicly verify that that information now I could tell you guys that I’ve had conversations with sponsors that say we’re not going to be running in the conservative space because it’s just not as effective as we thought it was or you know what we’re going to be pulling out and content creators who say why am I getting these low advertising rates here’s the issue if you’re some kid and by Kid I mean you know you could be a 40 year old with a smaller podcast let’s say you get a quarter million plays not as big but good numbers let’s say you get half a million places right good numbers but they’re real and you are a conservative and you’re trying to grow this and then all of a sudden your content YouTube is saying can’t say that can’t do that because of the box that’s being created by all of these companies in big conservatism and then you’re trying to make it right you’re trying to make it something that is financially solvent and you can’t because sponsors no longer have faith in this side of the industry that is something that hurts those creators and this is something so the creators are hurt the sponsors are hurt the viewers are hurt because you just want to finish this one and then any questions you have the viewers are hurt because they feel isolated they feel like their views are not represented right they go hold on a second I’m conservative why are none of the top people saying whatever it is x y z and the investors are not only billionaires in our case it’s people who invest when they sign up for mug Club they are paying us because they say we know that you’re demonetized we know that you don’t run nearly as many sponsors or very selective and we think we are giving you our Dollar in faith because we think that you are fighting for us imagine let me give you one final parallel world there um imagine if we left the blaze okay and this again the issue is that everyone is demanded to sign these exact same contracts that’s what they said they’ve been very very clear about that it’s just business imagine Michael leaves the Blaze and let’s say we come back two three months okay and we come back and all of a sudden I don’t talk about vaccines in the way that I used to all of a sudden I don’t talk about election Integrity like I used to all of a sudden I don’t host Carrie Lake in the same way that I used to or hosts her at all and all of a sudden all the parodies the sketches you know the sweeping epic like a parody of Saving Private Ryan or There Will Be Blood or Schindler’s List whatever it is you don’t see any change my mind you don’t see any of those anymore we see four or five libraries I’d be the definition of a sellout and I would be selling out the people who paid for something different only one group of people here is saying you have to fit into this box I’m saying you got to let some people let the freak flag fly I don’t care if you want to be monetized or not don’t lock people and punish them on behalf of big Tech when you claim that you are fighting them and it is everywhere and it’s disheartening I’ll tell you a story I think the people who uh have watched my content consistently know about this the it was it was called uh some referred to as ad rights sales ad rights buying back in the early 2010s these up and coming digital media Outlets would sell the uh rights what what they would do is they would I’m sorry they would buy the rights to views so let’s say you’re a company called like um uh badbehavior.com you know some war that represents would you pick one that is clearly going to direct people to hardcore pornography Skittles and rainbows website okay and uh same big okay okay Bodacious M M’s let’s say you’re a big brand and you get about 30 million views per month that’s not going to cut it you can sell a premium idea there would be these low tier websites you’ve seen them before you’ll see an ad and they’ll say guess what this celebrity looks like now you click it and then it’ll say here’s here’s the celebrity throughout 25 years and every photo has 50 ads and you click next and it loads a new page with 50 ads what they’re doing is harvesting views right so then this website that nobody knows the name of right nobody visits tricks you into collecting a view they then sell the rights to those views to a premium Network the premium premium Network then goes to advertisers and says our Network gets 200 million views per month right and if you advertise with us you you are in that Network and in reality you can only get 30 but they bought the rights meanwhile there’s something he’s actually getting 10 million views right you know there’s some kid and he doesn’t get the same Advertiser rates because he gets burned and then those kids drop out do you does anyone ever wonder why the burnout rate is so high in this industry there are so many good people I mean you can go back to when I was in pjtv in 2009 people who I worked with good solid people who by the way had skin in the game who had a lot to lose and you’ll never hear from them again because they just go I’m out I’m out they get disenfranchised they get disenchanted and that’s the issue look it doesn’t it doesn’t affect me I’ll be fine either way but I we’ve always talked about building a bench and I’ve always talked about wanting to be able to pass the torch it’s not possible to do this way and by the way the way you know this is true is right now I have said I don’t want to do this again I’ve been thinking about this for a long time trying to work behind the scenes trying to work within the system until I realize there’s just no interest in doing it that way and then you say okay is our move this is why we lose conservatives wonder how what the hell with the midterms what the hell happened why do you think why do you think people like Lindsey Graham like Mitch McConnell nothing personal against them why do you think that there are people out there and you go how do they not get voted out why do you think these are our our decisions for for speaker these are our choices why do you think you constantly lose because the people who really do want to be the Vanguard at The Cutting Edge uh they burn out and they leave because they can’t compete against it and that’s the issue I got to tell you man I make this point all the time where I just say for for all the people who are claiming I’m a grifter or I only want money and that I don’t really believe the things I’m fighting for I’m like it would be so much easier to sell everything shut it all down and and just buy some properties rent them out and not have to worry about any of this take money and shut up yeah take money and shut up but it’s not about what’s easy yeah it’s about what matters yeah and by the way we want you guys to make money we want every conservative in this space to run a profitable business that’s what I run away able to make as much money as humanly possible but do it honestly and and just be honest with people about how you’re going to spend that money as well well there’s the issue too we’re talking about honestly is it just friends or just business you kind of have to pick one is it a lash out or is it premeditated you can’t have to pick one look let’s let’s go ahead I do want to talk about the friend versus business thing but I do want to First jump into a segment where you can talk about 50 million dollars the big the big narrative that we’re hearing about your artists not anymore right they changed it to the phone calls that was the initial narrative which was a lie that’s a tactic of the left let’s do the context here yeah you put out a video you mentioned look at these fees it’s you know I I never mentioned money outside of what I believe were immoral penalty fees I never talked you’ve never heard me say hey not enough money was offered that’s not what it’s about so when we when we first were watching the show and we talked about it I said what’s the fee we don’t know and then the daily wise response of course was we offered this guy 50 million dollars basketball money basketball money the response then from detractors and most people was holy crap and they’re imagining Stephen Crowder in a big private bank vault diving into a like when in reality the 50 million dollars included the entire budget for your whole staff your whole production facility every production you would have done meaning you’ve got to pay how many employees you have about 25 soon to be 30 something soon to be 30 something now if you want to do production on a skit we’re talking maybe 30 to 50K depending on the size of the skit yeah every time I show up to a change by minus fifty thousand dollars millions in legal yeah millions millions of dollars in equipment payroll uh millions of dollars in taxes that’s the merging it’s the merging of what was that it’s theft yes let me just say wheelhouse I’m I’m on your side on this one everybody can know my bias the reason that really bothered me is because I run a company I know how much money we make and there are people who assume that Revenue equals money in your pocket profit and it’s like no no if they’re giving them 50 million dollars it sounds so wonderful they’re assuming you’re dumb they’re they’re treating the audience like they’re dumb again a lot of people don’t nobody nobody don’t understand this people don’t understand because they’re assuming that you won’t go into research look 50 million basketball money versus 12 million if if let’s say Marvel says I know the new Thor movie is 200 million dollars is that Hemsworth’s salary it’s that simple of an analogy yeah but the issue here and I’ll let Jill kind of talk about that more the the issue here is like I think that these people at Daily wire they’ve said that they’re very business savvy they’re running a business so are they very business savvy um and no are they dumb and don’t know that 12.5 million dollars a year for an entire production house is what we’re actually looking at or are they lying when they say it’s basketball money and 50 million dollars I think Candace owns at one point got up to like 140 or something on the I don’t know you said you wanted 30 million a year or 140 and the only reason people people know that’s not true and you’ve seen the transcript you ever see me once say hey it’s about more money there was never an offer sent after I said look it’s a non-starter if you don’t change these these terms and please tell them that you’re not doing this with other people there was never anything after that whereas of course the non-starter is I’m not gonna I can’t do five libraries because we do commercials I just want to ask one specific question because a lot of people are bringing this up and they’re accusing you guys of only exposing them after they turned down your counter offer is that true or can you add more information to that yeah I don’t know why they’re saying the timeline that he kind of gave was completely inaccurate yeah there was never there was never any counter offer from us what Stephen said was basically look guys these are the terms that we have a problem with right and if this I don’t care what the contract says Dollar Wise if these terms are in there that’s bad and you need to start again this has to be pulled out so there was no counter offer because I’m seeing a lot a lot of you guys saying there’s the agent the agent I think my agent the first they sent this term sheet they said well if you’re talking about 100 ownership by the way in perpetuity forever meaning and it’s a six-year contract with no option to negotiate they have an option to extend for two years six years locked in at that rate and again right how do you penalize someone for money that they don’t make they’re not going to lose money on you being demonetized now I get that I’m a special situation but this is demanded of everybody the big con issue is something that I’ve been running up against and everyone in this industry knows for many many years they just were arrogant enough to out themselves and to put it in writing and to say we know how to run this business we figured it out you don’t know what you’re talking about and of course you know after that uh um another last drug was you know then going and trying to take take our our social media director and I only showed you that email because he’s willing for me to show you like whatever people posted all the time when you have your ideas stolen and they put more money money behind it not just mine when you build someone up and someone else comes in and says hey we’ll offer you more money they use them for six months and burn them out I’m sure that’s an accident I’m sure the people at the top of daily wire didn’t know when they reached out to someone who was not looking for a job who loudly and proudly advertises himself as social media director for letteruth Crowder but I could tell you that on that phone call they said we have an entire social media department where I said I have one guy Gary and he’s awesome a few days later I do want to dedicate more to Gary join daily wire well let me know I know they came and tried to hire him I wanted for John I want to dedicate some more time to go starting from beginning of the context of that story but I wanted to uh address something before Luke jumped in the uh I Dare You Luke yeah how dare you Luke go to the floor that was a good question you know I had I want to put attack on this and um one of the one of the big things we’re hearing is uh a friend you know that you know you guys were friends and uh the recording of the phone call and stuff and I just thinking about the contract yeah four four-year contract with an option to renew for two locking you in at that rate 12.5 including the entirety of your staff and it’s just business and I’m kind of like you know I hear that it’s not something friends offer their friends no is it is it boilerplate we send this to everybody or is it a friend you know what it costs to have a lawyer Mark up a term sheet it ends up being thousands of dollars especially when it’s like hey look hit select all delete none of this makes sense this isn’t for someone who’s been demon but the problem and that’s one it came down to while you’re in that phone call this I said take me out of it right this is not the right fit period I knew that please tell me that these are not the terms that are demanded penalties that you are monetized on YouTube that you remain on Facebook that you stay in please tell me these are not the terms that are demanded of everybody and I said that was those are the last words he said yeah you know maybe I’ll take it under advisement and then you go okay all right this is where we are there’s no hope for the movement if we claim to be fighting big Tech and we sell out the people who are paying us to do so and fighting on behalf of big Tech I’m sorry it is something it’s wrong earlier earlier in the show you mentioned that uh I think you mentioned this in the show that you were you were in Hollywood you were uh doing the standard Talent route and then you decided to come out on YouTube as a conservative and it basically cost you a lot you you lost your manager I I don’t you don’t you don’t come off uh to me as a lot of you know Candace was on the show and she said he’s doing it for money it’s so obvious why can’t people see it and I’m just I’m thinking about that and I’m like do you believe that no I don’t well they’re accusing you of counter offering but but I understand that but my first my the first thing I thought was I’m like Crowder’s already rich you know what I mean like I understand people are looking at contracts really like you think I mean if they want to do if they want to do personal tax returns and business tax returns and the charitable givings we can do that this is this is uh we can do that again do it through a third party and seal them because I get private information we can do that Gerald will tell you this is again you know uh people like why why I care about the subject matter so much running this business and making lots of money I often say for a guy like me who growing up in Chicago and being close to the bottom of the totem pole as an American which is great for the rest of the world I mean if you for the rest America’s awesome right the poorest person is wealthy compared to everybody else right but there’s a certain point in terms of having things that I could have ever wanted and it’s a very very low bar right you know I’m making once once I got hired by Disney the Disney Fusion they’re paying me 250k I’m staring at money I have no idea what to do with right beyond that I’m going to change the world I’m gonna do everything I can but this is the thing that dialogue shifted to money money money money you heard me say this is wrong and then it’s money money money just a business and then it’s this is wrong money money money money this is just a business look it’s not just a business and by the way when you’re talking about business find out what motivates the people you’re in business with I’m not motivated by money that’s not what motivates me if you look back at the track record in 2009 I it was because I wanted to see the system burn meaning as far as the system that kept conservatives in line and I’m in the liberal system but then when you realize that it’s on your own side not motivated by money and by the way don’t leave someone don’t leave someone with nothing to lose you know the easiest situation is take the money shut up second easiest is go bet on yourselves you’ve seen the numbers that we’ve given you there and guess what you make more money you shut up the the option of say no and say look this is wrong and speak out is significantly harder than any of the other paths the two things I want to say is uh my point on the money was I view you in a similar way way that you’re ideologically driven that if you have the resources to do what you want to do and you’re living comfortably and taking of your family beyond that I don’t see you as the kind of guy who’s like I don’t have an infinity pool and three Ferraris in my garage so when they say Crowder is just what’s the infinity pool is that the edge it’s where the edge goes off like and so yeah it looks like a horizon no idea that sounds nice yeah I mean I wouldn’t mind doing a sewer that’s it right but the question is if you had the choice between an infinity pool and a young you know a talented personality who is going to help change the shape of this country for the better yeah I think you’re going to choose the change the shape of this country for about that’s my view of you 100 I had to tell this guy that it was okay to buy a reasonably priced shotgun yes I’m not kidding this is this this is not me like well he is Canadian we’ve been friends for a while Stephen can tell me at any point to go pound sand right so I’m not kissing up this is it’s just like he’s like geyser I want to buy the shotgun I’m finale yeah I have the foldable stock yeah is it basketball money crazy expensive no no it’s not right and so everyone deserves everyone in America deserves a shotgun a Benelli too it was two and a half we were in Texas hold it together and that you were there when I bought it yeah but we were we were at a we were to shop out here Luke said hey you should buy that it’s really great I buy it and then he goes I want it I want it instead was it a Benelli and then I was I was pissed off because I was like I didn’t think I was like I should have bought this and then he bought it before man I’m like wait wait wait hold on hold on the whole argument John was by the way how many how many people are watching right now 150 000 ish 158 on our Channel 150 58 000. so what what 158 is that a 150 that’s just on your channel that’s why we’re still streaming on I think second highest number we’ve ever done okay I just found our YouTube alone uh did you want to say no so no it wasn’t really a point was the Benelli M4 right so what happened is I really want but they’re not cheap and I was like you know what I I can’t justify buying I should go buy it online and so I was talking with Gerald and Johnny Boy Who You Met My Canadian friend I said okay you know what if I go into it because you know they’re like unicorns they sell out right away I said if I go into a gun store to pick up something up or something and it happens to be there that’s God telling me he wants me to have a Benelli M4 and I I went to go pick up some transfers from from Walther and lo and behold I see one there just came in and it’s the uh the H2O version the cerakoted version and I don’t think you’re with me but Johnny boy was and I was like ah you know I I still don’t think I could justify it he said if you don’t pay for it I’m going to buy it uh and of course I knew that it would be far more expensive for him so I I bought it but it took a long time I’m not really motive but it is a nice shotgun though I will say yeah occasionally there are some things we’re going to spend money on oh a tool any tool that you want to learn something with like a guitar too you want to get good a really good tool yeah or like knives like if I have like there’s a huge with steel and that’s okay sorry Tim I know we’re giving you let’s let’s go I love the Benelli stuff because I got one I wanted to make it but I got to make a point about you said in 2009 you you were like you realize that the liberal system is you know holding you back or something to the effect and then you’ve actually realized it’s on your side as well yeah I look over to Luke because Luke’s the guy who’s been screaming since 2006 like the Republican machine is lying to you all the same the powers that were being given to the Intel agencies and the establishment will be used against you yeah here we are well here’s the thing you’re absolutely right and uh let’s be honest right how can you change all that yourself you’re doing the best that you can right but there’s only so much that you can do the difference is right now at this point an inflection point history as it relates to right-wing conservative media I can do something I can’t change the intelligence agencies but you know what when I asked Carrie Lake on the show I say would you disband the FBI yeah I would boom gone suspended I can do something about that I can’t change the CIA or the FBI you’re probably more effective with that than I am I’m an entertainment guy I was a guy telling jokes in in clubs having beer bottles thrown at me when I was 17 years old voicing you know a black bear who was the best friend of an aardvark when I was 12 which is clearly derived from hallucinogenic drugs um I love that show yeah you know it’s funny I had to do the Kwanzaa rep if everyone would find something embarrassing for the Christmas episode and that’s when I was 13 years old and I was like oh Kwanza and I was like let me look into this I should you know Daniel Day-Lewis this and uh then I realized oh it’s it’s Ron Everett and he beat them with fire hoses and soldering irons and then I’m doing this song for Arthur hey come together now it’s Kwanzaa time and I wanted to pay worth it what’s that point you know I was under I didn’t I was under contract at 12 years old right you know so there’s not much you can do I still remember we were called crazy truthers for for calling this out as rationally as we did saying hey the National Security State is going to be turned around against you and it has but at that time specifically we had a discourse that was kind of free and open we didn’t have algorithms people were able to see important messages and videos and talking points and content creators now we’re living in a different age I wanted to kind of get your point of view some people say you have to keep pushing the Overton window some people say you got to keep playing ball Mark Dice is also in the chat he just is accusing Ben Shapiro of allegedly paying 135 000 and dollars to boost his Facebook posts I don’t know if that’s true well who cares though he can do that the the only thing I have is one the only issue I have is one that’s used and it hurts people because sponsors drop out because they don’t get their money’s worth again I can tell you that but would those receipts be a betrayal because this industry fundamentally needs to change people are investing in you and in us and in what you’re saying right if you can’t say what it is that you’re saying right now let’s say if you send a contact who said yeah but you know we have a lot of bodies in those in those systems you’re selling out to people who are supporting you and that’s something that to me is unconscionable and people can disagree with it but no I think you’re I I think you’re absolutely right so what would be the total solution I’m I want to get into the the problem solving like what would you do if you were the daily wire okay so the only thing and this is the thing this is all done right now I don’t I’m not saying that I have all the answers but the first answer and I’ve said we won’t talk about this again if someone takes a pledge alongside me anyone in VidCon just the only thing that I ask is that you do not punish conservative content creators on behalf of big Tech that’s it start with that let’s start with that before we get to everything else right A lot of times people want the entire solution just start with that you won’t be penalized 25 if you’re demonetized on YouTube by the people who are supposed to be fighting for you now let’s address the the the the argument there yeah the argument they’ve made is how do why should we be the ones to lose money if you’re removed from the platform and not making money and that sounds really great right it’s a partnership that’s what they were talking about they were trying to pick like a partnership and put it into contract form or at least in this you know like a term sheet right well what it didn’t take into account honestly is what if what if Stephen okay it’s 12 and a half million dollars what if he’s making them 30. what if he’s making them 30 million that’s the starting point yeah what if he’s making them 30 million dollars a year and all of a sudden instead of making 30 there you subtract two from that so it’s fine to share in these things when the expenses come up but when the upside comes up we’re not really in a partnership anymore we would be right there I thought you were gonna run like come on okay I had sex with your wife this is a good point it penalized you it’s if you get banned you lose X percent and no matter how much you’re making 45 no matter how much you’re making no and no matter how much you lose yeah yeah if you lose zero dollars they penalize and the penalties add up to 110 and they said in their own video they is demanded of all creators right that’s does anyone disagree that that’s what we said this is what everyone signs now now here’s the issue with that again you don’t put it in if you don’t want that the counter the Counterpoint Candice said is she negotiated she hired a lawyer yeah Stephen Crowder has the resources to hire a lawyer and red line This sure she put on her I thought we were good friends I figured out why why Candace was so pissed last night yeah because I figured it out I’ll tell you about this second I want I want to let’s talk about the friends thing this is actually a really good point you recorded co-ceo of daily wire Jeremy boring on a phone call he says I thought we were friends a lot of people have said wow that that was a mess-up thing to do it sounds like what you’re saying in in the context we’re just talking they sent you a business contract that was very bad that penalized you 110 if all all fees are applied more money than they would actually pay you and it didn’t take into consideration if you made them more money it didn’t take into consideration how much money you made them it didn’t take into consideration if you were banned from Facebook but Facebook generated no Revenue it still penalized you that’s part of it so here’s what I’m here’s what I’m hearing here’s what I’m thinking if the question is and and I do have I do have qualms about recording the the recording but we’ll get into more detail they say you were you were supposed to be friends why would you record your friend’s phone call well that’s an interesting point to be made why would your friend send you a a very very bad contract that that felt exploitative and why would a friend not listen to you when you say take me off the table it’s not a fit there was never just to be clear there was never another offer that came through after I said these are the non-starters the penalties for big Tech right these the owning of people’s names image likeness their platforms are in perpetuity long after they leave I said then we can talk about the money right they he said they came in low and I’m sure my my gay Cuban hardcore right uh right-wing agent came in high you find that but it’s like but there there can’t be any terms without this once I said that can’t happen then these terms the big Tech penalties that’s when so the talks completely stopped it was never changed and said of course all these it’s like you saw in the first video we have to make money they outright said that fee structure couldn’t be changed yeah there was never another offer after that I said look this is a sticking point you have to get rid of all of these change it and also you have to we can’t do this I’d love to sit as from one business owner to another you don’t have to do it it this way right a good example is look and I feel vulgar talking about numbers election night okay election night we had been suspended for having carry Lake on the entire daily wirecast on YouTube less than a quarter of the viewers that we had on Rumble when we crossed streams their viewership went up 40 that 30 40 000 people that’s proof of product that hey look proof of concept you can do it off of YouTube you don’t have to right I think you use the platform as long as you can but you need to start building Alternatives it is fundamental to the business model on the right to not change that and I’ll just point out that we have about a hundred and twenty thousand more live viewers than we average with you being here so there’s something I think daily wires got some creative like a lot of opportunity on their website because like if all your back catalog was on daily wire at no cost anybody and they could go into daily y login and then I spend 99 cents on a Crowder video and then that money gets split between you guys like there’s a lot of technical well there’s already doing over 300 000 subscribers day one right now um the the issue here is let’s take me out of it let’s say you’re starting your own thing right you’re trying to come up in this movement and the terms are being set by people on your side behind the scenes where this is the ball that you have to play I said did you mean take me out of it it’s not the right foot which I thought if I don’t have a dog in this fight anymore it won’t fall on deaf ears when I say hey it’s about the it’s about the next kid this can’t work we can’t have a movement we can’t sell our people out and that’s how I view it maybe you don’t they said this is just a business these are the terms but there are alternatives you don’t have to be dependent on YouTube or Facebook and you certainly shouldn’t make it fundamental to your business model when you’re telling people that you’re fighting them something going on for years here’s one not just daily wire to be clear not just daily wire pick pick a name in the movement most likely yes here’s my view of it I think the daily wire does important work good work uh Candace Owens BLM documentary I think was good uh what is a woman I think was was a massive success that that what has a woman reached people that I know that aren’t political and that’s that’s a that’s a cultural Force so I think I I I I talked with them we had a meeting I sat down with uh with Jeremy with a few of the other guys but mostly with Jeremy Jeremy came on the show afterwards he said hey if there’s anything ever anything you ever need let us know thanks for having me on and I was like I’ll hit you up sometime we talked about doing uh Nashville week because we wanted to we wanted to try out our new mobile Studio then we had you know while we’re in the process of setting this up I said well let’s talk I mean is there a way we can maximize the effectiveness of our operations you guys are way bigger than us of course but of course as an opera there could be an opportunity that we don’t understand that you do and so we started talking about a variety of different things yeah ultimately I it came to potential terms it came to requirements I of all the businesses I’ve ever negotiated with the the most real in my opinion was with Jeremy it was like I was talking to an actual human being who knew what he meant who explained the pitfalls the pros and cons look if we do a deal like this you’re right it’s going to suck because of that reason that’s true what do you think and I said I don’t know if that’s going to work for us the joke is I I actually said what if I want to put up a billboard that says let’s change a fat pig and he was like you know that’s not us like we’re not and I couldn’t find one big enough right but but I said like I’m not literally gonna do that you know it’s I feel it is kind of crude saying that point but the point I’m trying to make is that we’re roguish we want to do weird things yeah the ultimate conclusion was you know I then there’s maybe we can’t work transactionally together and I was like yeah he’s like but we’ll do we’ll do other cool stuff sure you know we’ll you know we’ll we’ll talk with your your guys on our shows you know we’ll have you on you can come on this will be really great for everybody and so my view was like I agree with you on the contract stuff but why did it really fall apart why did it completely Fall Apart like the deal with in other words what you’re saying is they were saying you need to be in this box because it’s not about the billboard let’s be honest it’s not just about the billboard well the billboard was the box it was like if I wanted to do something that was aggressive and more shocking the billboard is that point yeah I don’t want to put up a billboard calling list Cheney a fat pig can I ask you something yeah did they do the thing where they said we tried to look at outside capital for you for the first time at work they didn’t do that they didn’t do that I don’t want to I don’t want to give up too much of the details of the conversation we had of course but I basically said uh let’s just say I made a big ask of the biggest asks that if if if what you’re saying you know it has to be this way then I have a very very big ask and they’re like yeah that’s expensive I don’t know if I can do that and I was like look ultimately what it comes down to is for those that understand tabletop RPGs they play Paladin I play Rogue someone commented in super I don’t understand the reference but let’s play right now do you know someone someone super chatted they’re trying to be Rebels within the box they’re Warriors of God that’s a paladin that basically think of a stoic monk a knight following the rules holding a sword saying look the rules are as such we will do right to the best of our abilities whereas we here at timcast are like a bunch of crackpots in the in the bandits Forest being like we’re gonna do what we want to do it’s like the lost boys out here it’s escape and you see a bunch of mopeds and I think we’re gonna throw a basketball in my face asked me to play one of the yellow Banger I did bring it to the basketball court you did yeah VIP up the half yeah you know I would agree with you if here’s the problem when you have a few because it’s again this is not about the daily wire there are a few few key companies that control what is permissible in this movement and these few few key companies are saying this is the only way I’m saying there could be many ways it would be one thing if we’re saying hey maybe this way maybe this other way but now this sort of reeks of why don’t you go and create your own YouTube why don’t you go and create your own fine billionaire investors to give you seed money well how do you do that when then this happens a lot ideas are stolen and then Millions pumped behind it to promote it as though it seems original and then they steal your talent who you Foster you know you you’ve probably had this assistant I’ve had it happen with dozens of people the picture I sent you of people working at her company there’s at least four or five there who worked for me they were young other big networks in this space came in offered them a bunch of money I said look I’m not going to keep you I give you a letter recommendation after six months they come back so I I wanted to address what you were just saying about these companies playing by the rules that’s completely my experience with a lot of these different companies is that big Tech is clearly infiltrated by I mean you look uh Alan bakari I think it was got a hand got his hands on that Google video where they were crying that Trump won this is Google I love this on my Wikipedia it says Tim Poole you know maintains that can there’s a bias in big Tech against conservatives or whatever sure and I’m like no I don’t I read a Gizmodo article from 2016 that said Facebook was suspending conservative news I was in there yeah that’s how I met my half asian lawyer Bill Richmond he read the article and he was like yeah it’s like the Chris Kyle Foundation Ted Cruz for president and you uh you need some representation they they they act like it was a smear against me that I was pushing conspiracy theories when I was literally reading the left news sources so so anyway they set these terms these big tech companies and then what happens is the leftist organizations Clearly say the stupidest and craziest things you know chat GPT the AI bot it was I think Jack besobic who asked it or he tweeted this out when asked did Joy read and Rachel Maddow spread covered misinformation it says no they didn’t and it was like well they they did literally we know for a fact they did yes and then it goes out says well while they acknowledge some mistakes no no the whole machine is skewed in that direction what happens then is Big tech company I shouldn’t say big Tech I’m sorry many of these big conservative Outlets I shouldn’t even say necessarily conservative Outlets but many of these many of these companies are just like we’re gonna set the parameters right here because we’re going to be within the Box we’re gonna be rebels in the Box this is the problem and I’m finding why I think Candace was pissed too is that when we refer to companies doing thing and what happens is the company is a hologram it doesn’t have any availability or or any ability to do anything the people so when you’re negotiating for instance it comes out Stephen Crowder negotiating with the daily wire quote right and that brings all these other daily wire employees into it like they were getting messages Candace was Michael knows on their chats and they’re like now I’m involved because it was between you and Jeremy boring they don’t have Ben Shapiro there’s actually four owners to the Daily wire Ferris Wilkes and Caleb Robinson owned by bent key Venture so you’re only in negotiation with four people if we stopped saying YouTube is doing this we’re gonna get a lot more accurate in the people who’s doing it who’s who’s using YouTube as a is a filler yeah I want to know and I also that leaves out unnecessary collateral damage yeah but like I said it’s like they send out on YouTube you know they send out representatives to conservatives and they’re patsies for the higher-ups but when you you get coming back to you time and time again you know if you did what company X if you did what company meaning big conservative companies who have meetings with them as if you did that we might be able to get you remonetized or at least not suspended and that’s what I mean this is the thing is there any examples you could give us about key issues uh specifically about that yeah anything relating you know back in the day on trans issues you know for example we had a character like we did for a long long time uh bang was a character that we did was Bane dark knight series and all I did was an uprising you know Arkham Asylum against YouTubers so you can’t do that anymore um there’s one where they said you can’t sell off-site the socialism shirt that we had which wasn’t even on YouTube uh yeah the the the social elements for fixture you don’t want to know the funny story about that I’ve never seen John laugh so hard was we started selling on the website because it’s socialism is for figs it’s a plan where you may not like it but people also need to know Che Guevara executed gays right this is a guy if when you wear a chick of air shirt you’re wearing a Hitler who was less successful in being charismatic and duping people not saying it was successful I’m saying he was a genocidal Maniac so of course we’re mocking him YouTube says well you can’t do that that shirt is hate speech it’s off the platform so what we ended up selling at the Crowder shop was a mystery box and I get a call from one of the most senior Executives at YouTube and I go what do we know what’s in the box I was like I’m thinking someone in Silicon Valley is opening it like and uh so we stopped selling but that’s something that’s completely off the platform but the point is right you need to be there needs to be someone standing up to these giant organizations and when you say like Jeremy said in this video well you know we’ve only met with Susan wacheski once and we were really going in and defending let’s say okay one second are you the biggest most influential fastest growing conservative Network in the world or did you spend time going in and fighting for the little gang were completely ineffectual you can’t have both one of those things is true the inconsistencies are the issue and that’s a tactic of the left here’s like fully expect them to come out and say this is a lie This Is A Lie switched the narrative from the phone call switched in there from the money now that that’s gone probably a Hit List like the Vox adpocalypse probably get personal this is why people don’t speak out this is why good people don’t run for office and we shouldn’t be doing that on the right I want to bless you thank you I want to pull up this uh this story right here that uh story I want to look at this email know that you’ve you’ve shown me yeah the daily wire tried pouching one of your employees and what would make this significant is if this happened after yes your negotiations okay so so after your channel it’s not the first time that this has happened after you were talking with the daily wire about potentially doing a deal they reach out to your employees and I’m I’m looking at the email right here saying that you know they came across the social media manager hey they got a great opportunity to join the new counterculture it says they emailed your staff and said come work for us instead right that doesn’t not sound like something a friend would know and the only reason I’m showing you that is I’m not going to be showing receipts from third parties who are who are blameless victims right Gary said you can show that he came right to me and said hey look this came up I said hey they’ll probably offer you more money and I’ll write you a letter of recommendation he said no I know you guys want to be monetized um and uh the issue that took place in the conversation it might even mean the one that you saw where I said like they’re like well you know we do have a social media Department I said well I got you know we can do it here that was the one thing that we talked about maybe splitting I think at some point I said I have Gary and he’s awesome so he was he was named how long after you did that call about the term sheet did they send this email I don’t know the day I know it was definitely after the talks completely fell through so here’s I mean you probably have the time about what happened is there was a week where the election happened right Rumble uh because we were banned from YouTube going into the election which I’m sure was a chance just happenstance uh and then um we did that and I thought I was really kind of securing the future you know for my children because I’m like okay there are other players in this space people kind of know I’m a free agent our performance on Election night is going to be big because last time it was the biggest selection stream ever right it was like 16 17 million people across the platforms we’re only doing it on Rumble so I wanted to do that and I was really nervous Kate went well then I did uh two shows at the the Ryman the original Grand old Opry yeah in Nashville and some daily wire people came out and the shows went really well I mean people need you know eventually releases special but if people need to see the Clippers yeah standing out to both shows and Dave was earned did fantastically well too and you think okay you can’t do any better Reuben no no just just me and David yeah yeah yeah all right no no yeah yeah I guess yeah I guess he doesn’t count himself with uh Peterson yeah Landau um and then you gave me that look no no I was like I was very confused I thought that there were hallucinogens in here from right now because that’s the first thing yeah it wasn’t in there yeah after that we’d had those conversations about like this these are the sticking points right and please like we also one but we got to figure out a better way to do this because it stifles the movement after that it was yeah we’re not going to be able to come to any kind of terms and that was for sure after that conversation I made one fine yeah one final play in that called like just prom take me off the table promise me it won’t touch other people and the question is look did you was your understanding when you invest money when you subscribe was your understanding that all conservative Talent out there nearly all are penalized if they’re demonetized was that your understanding was that your understanding that then they are penalized if they are suspended then they are penalized if they don’t take as many lives was that your understanding when you were investing and people going out there and fighting for you because I know the feedback that I get at these live shows with thousands of people at every event and it’s not a hard-earned dollar that I take lightly people feel powerless they say there’s only so much they can do at least that guy can go out and fight for me I’d like it to be these guys and girls and for context too it’s very important these fees pertain to strikes and Bannings on the major big Tech platforms right irrespective of your viewership on the Alternatives we’re all trying our subscribers or subscribers or sponsors and it’s demonetization too here’s here’s an important picture it should be painted a lot of people are saying you know Crowder you recorded uh Jeremy that’s not what friends do they’re surprised by it but here’s here’s what I’m seeing now and uh you know putting myself in the middle of this you you’re always in the middle of it of course that’s what I do right but but look you you go to the doctor no no now your term sheet okay you go to the Daily wire they say here’s a term sheet you go whoa this is crazy hey you can’t do this the daily wire then says all of a sudden you’re not also but a few months later Crowder register stop VidCon then he calls and secretly records Jeremy he was setting us up this email right here paints a different picture in that you talked with the daily wire and said here’s our issue here’s what we can’t do and they said okay and then sometime later they try no they said if that’s the issue this is our business model and you don’t know business but then they try and poach one of your employees one of your and that could be an accident but it’s not the first time yeah well but you said you didn’t you didn’t mention him by name and Gary yeah employee poaching is considered vulture-ish as it is but it is business and by the way there’s a huge difference between employees reaching out to you in a company right and you feel that you’re available which is hap which happens versus going to someone who is clearly not available who was mentioned by name saying this guy is awesome and curious hilarious because he’s Russian he was born and raised in Russia until he was 13 but he seems totally American no accent but then occasionally you realize like he’ll say something out of context like I can kill two birds and get stoned or something that’s me but I’m polish are we raised in Poland yes okay so there you go no one would guess so those first few years did you have those disconnects where people are like are you not and you’re like I I don’t understand whatever first few years he still does it I still do it all the time yeah all the time that’s the point I’m trying to make uh the the picture painted so far was that you all of a sudden sent this plan to get the daily wire and they were blindsided by it but it actually seems like now now there was a bit of a back and forth in that you said hey guys I don’t like this then they say well that’s a business then they try to approach one of your employees then you’re like okay this is it sounds like it’s been going on for years but but everyone in the space knows it everyone in the space knows it this is not an issue of they had a polite conversation with you said we’re sorry we disagree and then you devised a plan to come after him there was no then the daily liar comes and tries to poach an employee then you guys are like these kind of business practices can’t continue no and it was always about the terms and it’s it’s stupid to say that this was our plan to get subscribers I’m sorry like I get a little bit pissed off with this because that means that you didn’t pay any attention at all to mug Club forever that was us getting in touch with our subscribers and making sure that whatever home we went to on our own with somebody else we were going to have access to the people that paid for our content this was not a plan that was hatched to make sure that we could write off into freedom and do whatever the hell we wanted with this really great email list it would be it would be the hardest waiting for that we said it yeah it was clear and you saw the numbers there it sounds like you guys are like right on the precipice of creating your own network or your own website where people pay you 10 bucks a month and just get access and I really don’t want to have to do that like here’s the thing right wouldn’t you wouldn’t it be great if you could link arms with the self-professed most powerful people on our side we’re supposedly fighting for us but the problem is when they say we have no interest in doing that you go wait Austin hold on a second here’s the good news I bring Tidings with great joy we can get just as many viewers on Rumble as you can on YouTube and by the way stay on YouTube but just don’t punish conservatives for being demonetized they go this is the business we know no one else does I don’t want to start a network if you guys could counter offer what would be the things you would counter offer right now what deal would you guys take from a big company let’s not just say the daily wire let’s just say there’s another company what’s your ideal job can take the problem I would take a deal I would have taken a deal that was less money less money and more honest uh and more freedom and not penalizing other people he steps in because I’m like yeah it sounds like a good money he’s like you don’t know what our expenses are gee I’m like I don’t know Gerald you tell me I got I got a lot of different terms that you would have to negotiate and this has been the sticking point from the very beginning and it kind of goes back to something that you said about Candace getting these questions it is just 100 you you don’t start with these terms in the contract again it was like oh it’s a term sheet negotiate of course we negotiate I’ve been doing that I understand that that is part of the process that’s what you do in these things but if you’re going to start there and we say hey that’s not that’s not something that should be in this movement and you’re like well we’re not coming back to the table by the way after the Ryman we were expecting them to come back and have changed that and made an offer that we could then start negotiating from that never happened so so this is the the term sheet right here I’ve got it this is that the uh the first one yeah that that one that was sent I guess October 5th it says uh non-binding confidential it does say only one no no no I got I got to point out for you for you uh Stephen uh it says if any of the major platforms uh issue a strike you would have the fear reduced it gives it gives examples of the major platforms are uh I’m assuming that’s not limited too in which case it looks like they’re basically saying what at their discretion they determine what a major platform is yes and then so if Twitter gave you a suspension they’d dock your fee by 25 even though Twitter’s not a major driver of platformer host right but you know what the good news is could have been clarified and put in writing no and by the way I said that the first one because that didn’t look like the daily wire one that you’re rolling I was like did you uh somebody else I don’t know it’s because I think we did reader view or some by the way do me a favor I just need to understand this because one of the arguments that was put forth is well this is just a standard starting point for everybody okay I don’t play those games hold on no but it’s not just it’s not just a term sheet it’s not just a term sheet everybody else that production comes out of you you knew Stephen well enough to know that he had his own production team and therefore the costs would be borne by him but everything else was just standard of our our apology we’re leaving it in there because that was one of the claims that was made this is just a standard contract you know negotiating start point of term sheet that we we always give to everybody it’s like yeah but you knew Stephen well enough to know he did all of his production but then you’re saying the rest of that it’s a production company it’s a production house right it’s everything it’s 25 employees it’s just disingenuous guys it’s not real well do they do they do they not know better or is it dishonest let me ask you this do you really think I will say this the only thing I’ve said about Ben is Ben is brilliant he’s one of the smartest people I’ve ever known I don’t care what he says okay I still hope the best for the guy and by the way for people out there then I know that they’re anti-semitic people I’ve not said there’s none of this controlled opposition I 100 believe that Ben believes what he says even if we disagree none of that is taking place the problem is when you demand that other people fall into line but do you really believe for a second that Ben so ignorant that he thinks that’s 50 million dollars a year in my pocket basketball money do you think Ben believes that he knows better yeah he said that is it honest yep is that honest now if someone did that with you and said Tim pool is a money-grubbing prick and we offered him in basketball money and someone came out and called you a little right and you had and that literally happened and you had the ability to say and you and you’d seen this happen to other people behind the scenes for years and he said that’s not going to be me you had the ability to prove that was verifiably false which no one is arguing of course granted you know I think there’s a a tactical difference between us as well in that I think you play Warrior and I play Rogue again over your heads but Ian said they’re going like right right I do have an original copy of Chrono triggers yes he met a girl who grew up on my block apparently I have her copy from Super Nintendo like Star Wars Return of the gym yes word of English when I knew when she was young nope she’s been holding knives okay it’s crazy small world 30 years my strategy would have been to to poop on the contract just being you know totally transparent and I’m just here but but but but to bring it back like what would be the perfect contact what conditions I want to address I want to address uh what you were saying about you know would I prove I’m wrong if I could I suppose what happened differently for us was that vitriolic if it was that vitriolic yeah I didn’t granted did it daily wire added themselves and they said it was because people assumed it was them uh after I had a conversation my determination uh conversation with the daily wire my determination was they do business in a way that I don’t agree with but I like that they’re doing things that have a cultural effect in the positive thus I’m gonna build my thing the way I think it’s supposed to be right let them make the things they make with the people who agree with being a part of that and hopefully even if they’re not 100 in the right direction if it’s one percent producing cultural net positive I’ll just have to be the force that pushes it what if it’s 80 net negative that’s your view right I I don’t know I I think well again I agree the people who the investors in our case right there’s there are no other investors right I don’t know 100 of my company we’ve entered into licensing agreements where people have temporary ability to monetize the subscribers and the content they’re in right we still have all the content and when we uh when we left the blaze we still have that because there was a period of time the issue there is what we’re talking about is penalizing people on behalf of big Tech was that your impression because that’s not the impression that’s given and you know what there are a lot of things that that you can get and I really want this to be done just pledge that we won’t penalize people on behalf of big Tech we can talk about it hey there are ways to do it with with Rumble I know you’ve talked about a decentralized solution to people subscribing right and I think yeah there’s good with that there are also issues because people have so many different places where they have to pay right now and they kind of want to get one portal hopefully there’s a way to figure that out here’s what you do as far as a contract if someone is coming in this entire production house I’ve been having contracts negotiated you know you said you were in Sag uh 2000 so I I wasn’t since I was 12 years old uh and had agents negotiating contracts and term sheets I know what a term sheet looks like every time we do a live show by the way I’ll be in Louisville Kentucky February 10th I think we’re adding a show on Thursday you can go buy tickets on the website every time I do a live show there’s a term sheet and the term sheet is this is what happens with live shows okay there’s a minimum guarantee yeah and the minimum guarantee is no matter five people show up if it’s you know your dad and your aunt Tilly we pay this and there’s a percentage of the gate and if you want more if you’re willing to bet on yourself right you say lower that guarantee and take a higher portion of the game I go in and say don’t give me a guarantee and I’ll just take the gate and they sell their drinks right they end up making more money we’re giving them less risk what you do is Luke to answer your question you can present it if it’s a production company where you want them to incur all of the risk all of the costs okay you do a REV split whether it’s upside for both sides or some people want security right we have 1099s who work at the company with employees some people want security and so they become salaried and they get health insurance they get a 401k you can ride two options you can do rev split or you can do an employee agreement for people who want to do that in this case they want to do employee type constraints and again none of this matters as far as I can’t be clear enough I said take me off the table here the issue is entirely the enforcement of bit of punitive practices through mandate at the most powerful company but you can do it those ways and there are there are a million ways to skin a cat you can make that work and that’s the way that it’s done we both know in the liberal Cesspool that is Hollywood where everyone is out trying to screw somebody they still know that you can’t do that they still know that that’s one the decision to remain monetized rests with the Creator and always stays there it’s not a part of the model because so you’re 51 yes that’s fine unless we fast forward five years five years from now daily wire is Undisputed number one five million subscribers and big Tech turns to switch would it be better to course correct a little bit now with a little bit of pain or would it be better to wait until it’s too late it’s better to do it now because Microsoft could buy daily wire tomorrow it’s very dangerous to consolidate it’s a really good point or BlackRock BlackRock guy Rumble tomorrow Rumble is not safe it’s it’s a private company that’s all centralized company and here’s the one thing that I like about because look Rumble tweeted out like hey we offer these non-restrictive contracts I think was it France right rumble’s a public company think of the balls it takes where I think it was the government of France that you have to start changing content and they said right when you’re a public company and you tell an entire government fine that’s that’s the kind of balls that people are expecting and these people and by the way the guy who runs is a Canadian the CEO he’s not he’s not even I don’t think he’s super conservative he just sees the writing on the wall why did those people get it why because he’s been under the I would say tyranny now when you see someone like Trudeau just because he does blackface and he can’t throw a jab doesn’t mean he’s not a tyrant right people have lived into that chair and they go we can’t let that happen here so Rumble gets it they tell France to go fornicate themselves with a wire brush but the people who who take money from harder conservative Americans who are wondering how they can fight back how they can have a voice don’t see it do they not see it or is it the business model right you can’t that’s what I’m wondering did you feel like your buddy and then what I mean your buddy like Jeremy you and Jeremy are friends or friends or whatever but that he lowballed he knows your value and he lowballs you and you’re like dude if you’re gonna do that to me I’m taking I’m going scorched Earth it wasn’t the low ball it wasn’t the Lobo it was it was hey look prompt look let’s just sit down and talk about how you can do this without mandating through punitive practices against not some according to him in his video all conservative content creators let’s find a different way because there’s no future in this there’s a lot of there’s a lot there that’s permissible right in business money I get it yeah lowball sure um and and you know that everyone knows that um but what’s really hard to deal with is there was a period like I talked about with Gerald note where I was super depressed um felt kind of hopeless because this has been a long time in the making and you you knock on one door and you have people you think are on your side you know no wait this is how it works and then you because you don’t see behind you know the uh the curtain you hear that we’re fighting back against big Tech and you see this often you go oh there’s no there’s no future here and the response to this is not right has always been money money money money I can’t stress it enough so it’s not about the money so what is the future in your mind then what what needs to be done what first needs to be done is people to mean what they say and if you are taking money from conservatives out there under the guys that you’re fighting big Tech start fighting big Tech start with that okay I don’t know about the and I know that when I say this by the way they’re going to send they’re gonna be four or five Hatchet men coming from the daily I understand that by the way have you seen anyone else in these videos is the first time Gerald’s been here because I’m like look you handle the finances more than I do it’s me it’s two on one it’s three on one it’s four on one and gee golly we thought we were friends and you know what I’m not going to call anyone a I still I mean what I said Andrew cleave is one of my all-time favorite people I think Jordan Peterson is unbelievable I go to the wall for that guy think Ben Shapiro is brilliant never met Candace Owens um Michael Knowles my experience with him I don’t know him as well I really like him I like a lot of these people good singer is he a good singer well he has that voice I mean Andrew Cleveland he told me at that voice into like six words like well teacher on parent teacher appreciation day I’ll give you an apple and they’re like this is how you talk um and it’s it’s genuine it’s genuine send it here’s the thing keep doing it if that’s what they want I’m not going to at a certain point my tolerance will run out so send four send five certain point don’t send anyone you expect back in one piece but what will you make right you talked in the beginning something you’re saying something about um it’s hard for everyone to just pay all across the board randomly to different people like if you want to support a Creator you’re on one website you’re on another website yes yeah yeah so so how would you it’s a subscription fatigue right you have the same with like Netflix and Hulu so can I answer your question with a question to um to crash test dummies here that doesn’t offend you right it does look like there you go yeah I love it there’s National Trends what’s your question my question for him is because he said like this might be a solution you have this idea or or you’re creating an actual product I don’t know all of it yeah but decentralized way to subscribe to people because and also people who create get to keep their subscribers by the way this isn’t daily wire it is industry standard in the conservative sphere you don’t get to know how many subscribers you have you don’t get to take them with you which only hurts people who are paying if you end up leaving you know if you end up not being with a network that’s industry standard not daily wire again stop bitcon was not just about daily wire you don’t even know you don’t even get to reach them that is the standard not just there and you mentioned before the show and I’m a little ignorant as to what it is forgive me you said it’s like this decentralized ability for people to sort of an anti-patreon is what I think oh yeah it is just basically doing what patreon does but without a patreon middleman so it’d be a piece a software packet that you download install on your computer and then you can start uploading videos through the software packet to rumble as a server or YouTube as a server okay unlisted the videos and then people would go to your website where you have a front-end hosted with this packet and they can subscribe 10 bucks a month then they can see on your website the unlisted videos from the other sites it’s pretty rudimentary it’s what Tim’s using a system like that he’s not using it that doesn’t sound rudimentary at all so that was like chip Douglas with a remote control incredibly complicated here’s the idea right now is that you’re an independent Creator yeah you go to patreon you go to locals yeah you go to someone else’s company you sign up there’s the infrastructure you give them 10 right I’ve done the math 10 is steep but they’re trying to run a business have employees so I get it sure so what we we were talking about this a long time ago make the software you get your own server space your cost you get your own domain your cost you install that software for free open source and boom instantly your website is a a clone of a subscription service website with an easy to use backend for you that networks with anyone else who uses it you can also Blacklist certain sites from your site if you’re like I don’t want my site to recommend this you know Skittles and rainbows.com you know very nasty stuff right there so or or it’s just you let the algorithm uh recommend whatever the recommend like similar words and phrases so what this does is if I go to your website and you want to be included in the network people will see and this could be bad for business some people might want to do it they will see like recommended Tim cast IRL episode with Stephen Crowder and be like oh I’d like to watch that show too creating uh it’s so YouTube’s one of the powerful things about YouTube is that it recommends shows after shows yeah and that recommendations from my shows it’s Seth Meyers oh wow right yeah way better than Seth Meyers it’s good this is the point it used to be legitimate it used to be that if you watched Crowder you get recommended similar shows or more Crowder now they’re driving everyone away right and so they’re taking away the natural uh networking marketing value so our idea was create it decentralized no one gets a cut of your money that’s your business you got to spend money on your bandwidth that’s your business but it’s free open source and it rips it rips away from the centralization and creates so I really like that now here’s the one thing too that Gerald kind of knows is um what’s always been true north to me is the viewer right as a person watching is how do they get the most value for their money and there are so many places to subscribe right now it’s too fragmented yes and I under but I also understand the danger of a centralized power right but if there would be a way for kind of like you were talking about with maker for there to be an alliance where maybe there’s some kind of a price break or discount if you get to subscribe to these other creators right so that you don’t have to do six dollars on a patreon here five dollars you know on locals here and by the way nothing wrong with it I’m just saying people feel like there’s this payment fatigue the subscription fatigue if we want to fight the Left Right think about just what they call the stream with Batista’s in this like canoe uh time I like Disney ESPN and uh what is it Disney and Hulu right that’s a value added and I think this is what was so disheartening is was really hoping that we could do that and the conservative movement where people can kind of get access to a portal and support the people that they want to uh I don’t know that it’s possible um but if there would be a way for the view because for the viewer what’s ideal is to be able to get access to more people that they want rather than having it because the price adds up right now it’s hard it’s like 10 bucks for Tim 10 bucks for you with this Tech that I’m building uh we haven’t had the multi subscription system set up but you could do something where it’s like 10 for him 10 for you or 18 for both of you then you each get nine but you’ll eventually have to take some sort of lost discount if you’re going to run a packet otherwise it would just be right it’s hard to figure out that right yeah it is it’s tough to figure it out um but there are ways to do it obviously people on the left have done it to some degree um the worst thing that I will say the thing that really is YouTube is it YouTube red or YouTube premium what are they premium yeah I tell you what though you know what sucks about it that’s actually a really good deal you get YouTube music which replaces Spotify you get YouTube TV which replaces cable and sling and you get HBO Max you’re like but they’re subsidized yes yes they are obsessed with nice but guess what so are these companies on the right all right but they’re subsidizing it in a way that is not foundationally sound for a move forward let me tell you something that really I feel like this should require hallucinogens I’m so happy too if you’re interested let me let me let me tell you guys something that that is kind of crazy to me and people don’t believe there are no investors in timcast there are only there’s only me as the principal of the entire company Soul owner sole board member president CEO Treasurer chairman et cetera et cetera et cetera their staff you know I have a CEO we have we’ve got people who work here but I own literally all of it control all of it with no outside investment it’s literally just I started making you’re not even Jewish yeah I’m I’m uh I’m just saying to the anti-semites by the way we’re not talking about no one talking about is even Jewish that’s a point I make all the time there are people who have been successful in media who aren’t I don’t know why they have that conspiracy belief but my it was shocking for me to find out that these these big alternatives only exist because some powerful industrialist or billionaire decided I’m going to spend money but that that money comes with their influence now the only issue I have with that is that we don’t know what their influence is and you oh if right if you come to timcast.com you know the whole influence in driving force behind this is literally just me if you’re a customer here as a member or whatever you’re supporting us it is literally me in charge of everything but a lot of these other companies you don’t know who who’s behind the scenes putting money in and saying hey guys I want to see this I understand how businesses work I understand investment works but you won’t know and if you knew it’s ball retractingly terrifying I mean that there’s some information again that you’re not going to open third prize it’s probably going to be coming out in the next six months year that will shock people startle people I could tell you that but would have to provide receipts and would that be a betrayal that’s the issue right I’ve given you a lot of information that you can publicly audit and I think that’s important I’m not going to pull people in like I said Gary said you can use it I can’t show you the three four five other instances just in the last two years where that’s happened it is absolutely terrifying but what was the crazy idea you were saying I thought you were like I thought you were gonna like I thought you just came up with a business plan or something oh it’s it’s just I think it’s crazy to me that’s not so crazy that’s totally reasonable I guess that’s why I’m throwing no no no what’s crazy to me is that we’ve gone to the point we have without that when it seems when seemingly no one else does it’s really but here’s what I want to say Stephen really I’m looking I’m looking at I don’t think it’s really to have the website rolling with Subs oh no we’ve had a lot of offers too from people who like run these sort of credit card processing these platforms are offering to give us better rates as well so there are a lot of people who’ve come forward uh like I said I mean daily it’s not about daily wire wasn’t even the highest offer just but here’s what I want to say yeah I’m going to say this right in in front of every every single person I think you’re going to make a hundred million dollars a year yeah I think you’re absolutely insane I think I I think I’m right but I would never demand that just to be clear setting from yeah did I tell you my new job yes for crying out loud I you’re trying to you’re trying to give him a heart attack I I I’ve seen your numbers I know look we’ve got 175 000 people watching on a show that normally gets 40 40 to 45 000. 130 000 live viewers tripling quadrupling quadrupling the live viewership we get because you came to talk about something that’s important to you you have people who are not only fans of your content who are entertained by it but also believe in you looking at your mug club numbers I think you launched this thing you maybe maybe not look it’s gonna it’s gonna it’s gonna snowball rolling down a hill I think you launched this thing and you’re making three to five million per month right off the get-go by the way I mean the whole production company whole production company which your staff is working on their budgets I’m gonna fork in the road which is you know a lot of money for bandwidth you’re gonna get a lot of people to sign up I could walk away and I understand this isn’t lost on me the only way people will 100 believe what I say and that there’s no ulterior motive which is what I try to do in the negotiations like take me off the table this is why this is a sticking point is if I walk away from this forever is if I never monetize again and I just go back off into the sunset just you know do stand up maybe do a once a week show something like that so I can continue selling out the the venues and I could do that and general knows that I strongly consider that at one point and I think he was the one if I’m not saying he said like yeah but then if you do that then this will just all blow over in two months and it’ll be the same problem so I do I get I get the question of authenticity again but I would ask you if this is the easy decision if this is the easy route to make uh route to take could have just taken the money shut up could have gone off and I don’t think it’s 100 million I think you’re absolutely insane no I’m not yeah I think he slipped you nope nope no look we we know what the daily wires subscriber numbers they have what a million paying subscribers they it’s it’s between seven and thirteen dollars per month to be a member there we they’ve talked about their yearly revenues thirteen dollars okay for their video content I believe it’s 13. they run some promos and stuff like that but yeah yeah different teams and it’s like you know look I think let’s Luke wants to talk about the IRS and I’ve seen Maxwell’s Kindle I’m I’m saying for one the easy route for you would have absolutely been sign the deal take the money and shut up let everyone else worry about all the problems and go sit on the beach of the coconut and just do the bare minimum yeah but I think if you go the hard way which running a company especially with I think the size of memberships you’re gonna have is going to be very difficult and time consuming but just you know make Gerald do all the harm if we continue down this route then there’s got to be other people right we have to have other shows on there I could have again just gone off and done it and just kept my club but I said like look either I’m gonna leave at this point or we can’t just complain and we have to do it better and that’s kind of where we are and by the way we still haven’t decided what it is that we’re going it’s it’s a tough decision to make I own 100 of mug Club always have uh we did the mud Clipper so we now know how many people are out there you know we were really clear we’re like do not go to monthly forever unless you are currently in my club we’re gonna snap and be double capture double opt-in called the list so we know like don’t go and is it a newsletter no there you go nothing any updates only when and where and if mug Club returns and this is a little bit of the Young Frankenstein oval team nothing let me ask you let me yeah do you think that when you you are going to launch something independent it’s going to be mug Club but then you’re going to add on shows do you think you’ll be bigger than the daily wire uh I don’t care no no real question based on your memberships uh based on the amount of views you get do you think you will be bigger than that I’m not saying it says it would it would if if I decided that I uh let me answer it this way I’ve wanted to be done with this by the time I’m 40 as far as hosting the show on air the last thing you want to do is overstay your welcome and then move to a you know um I wouldn’t say like necessarily uh like a harvey weinsteer like a brookheimer but more like a Suge Knight you know how old are you now uh 35. okay so um and I want to be able to pass that toward when’s your birthday July July okay yeah so um I want to be able to pass that torch right now there is no ability to because you now realize there’s no ability for people to come up and do it would be really hard for you to do what you do now today you know that right yeah and harder and harder and it’d be harder it’d be impossible for someone to do what I do I don’t want to pull the ladder up behind me so I want to be able to move into a production role but really what motivates me is being able to pass that mantle and make a difference I guarantee you if we were to do it it’d be within Striking Distance of the big boys um which I’d be fine with but as long as we do something that we believe in and I I promise we will never demand people’s YouTube monetization We will never punish them if they are not uh and it has to be something fair and it has to be us not shortchanging the investor meaning the people mug Club it’s entirely independent paying us for to fight for what they believe whatever those numbers are I’d accept them I’ll tell you my my prediction which who knows could be worthless hit me you you launch uh Subscription Service independent mug Club you get 300 000 hard sign ups at 10 or more per month I mean it was 10 bucks a month for for a lot of people it’s going up because of inflation because you know people need raises and things like that but let’s say you did 10 bucks a month you’re looking at like 3 million in memberships with no ad reads at all let’s say you do programmatic reads on the podcast version meaning you Steven never read a single ad then you’re looking at another based on your traffic I’d estimate another two to five million dollars per uh per year not per month so right off the bat you’re looking at 40 million dollars per year then here’s what happens Steven Crowder then offers big players really good contracts no BS no fees none of that out the gate it’s a legitimately good contract that gives your business a small cut but gives them the Lion’s Share for the work they produce they’re going to say oh I’m signing with with mug club that the terms were incredible I mean Crowder’s gonna make money off the deal the company is going to grow the giraffes with the hats that’s right I’m getting a lot of money then what’s going to happen is it’s going to make it very difficult for the big con these other big conservative companies to sign these deals when a young Trader says I appreciate the offer it’s tempting but Crowders offering me twice the money with no with no setbacks yeah I would really really like it real genuinely and Gerald knows this if there’s someone else in the space who handles that because because I’m not a business guy I’m not a business guy I’m a guy who out punted his coverage right you can go back and watch with a blue bed sheet who is doing stand-up comedy and acting and then had kind of put had my back up against the wall right I would really like it if there was someone else who already has the money who already has that ability to do it if they can’t okay I’ll carry that torch but well I don’t know maybe there’s someone out there are there enough good men and enough people left because that’s that’s not the best use of my time like it takes a lot of time to do a Good Will Hunting do you have any idea how hard it is to make Schindler’s List funny when you’re doing a parody you know what I mean uh like it’s a lot of work that’s where my time is better and that’s where the time by the way of all the creators is best spent yeah but instead they’re being forced to make this decision you know you’re a creative type you want to deal with numbers and back-end business it’s exhausting yeah I have to do it I know I don’t want to do it I have to so I’m building this technology but like boring that’s what Jeremy boring why you have to do it why because we need a new subscription service for creators it shouldn’t fall upon you though I have two questions yeah let’s do it exactly exactly if not you if not me who if not now when that’s this let me shout out to Phillip Fisher the guy building this stuff pure genius I’ll introduce you to him soon and I will say and I will say to everybody listening it’s you it will only ever be you when you see a burning building you think who’s gonna call all this in no no no one’s going to call it it’s gonna be you right I once watched uh when I was 16 years old I saw an old lady at a bus stop flip over land on her back and I paused and said I have no idea what to do what is happening I look around and I’m like I gotta figure this one out and I ran full speed into a building and just screamed call 9-1-1 on ladies hurt there’s nobody else you could you can’t sit back and just cross your fingers and hope someone else will take care of the problem right yeah you got to be the hero of your own story I just wanted to ask I actually feel terrible I just wanted to ask two quick questions for you guys one would you guys would you guys be open to doing like competitions or contests for new talent and a lot of people are asking about not gay Jared in the in the comment section can you guys clear up what’s happening in that situation some people are saying that there’s an NDA uh yeah well that’s the thing I think Candace brought up right again yeah there’s a difference between roping in third parties versus single party consent I think he tweeted out what happened where he left right not gay Jared he tweeted out that he left it was his own decision um we did a whole send-off with him in a video montage you know this works with like conspiracies and sometimes look there’s a also a middle ground where there’s for example like what is the email by the way if people are talking about shows I think it’s creators yeah creators so that’s actually not a bad idea contest if we do you know but the reason I didn’t want to do it is because I didn’t want to think that’s like hey this is why we’re doing this right now um but we do have a place where people can reach out the challenge is like there’s completely controlling contracts right that own your name image likeness and your platforms that you’ve already built in perpetuity okay that’s an extreme example that’s big con then you have people who are like hey I have no experience I’ve never done a show but I really think I could do it well if you give me money that’s a situation where you’d be incurring all the risk there is a middle ground and I think what needs to happen is if we I’m not going to be in the business of just creating shows from the ground up but there are people out there who say hey look I have a channel that’s doing relatively well I keep hitting the ceiling that is YouTube saying we need to play this kind of ball I’m suffering from the advertising rate to the sponsorship rates dropping across the board and I can just be you know the gasoline on that fire to back them up really why would you sign with a network if you’re if they’re not if they don’t have your back that’s the only reason to otherwise be independent right what is the upside at that point that’s all we want to be and whatever subscribers you generate you keep that’s the only way I would be able to do it it’s really publicity these big networks get get their faces seen But if you can do it without that but is there is there an NDA that’s what people are asking is there any is to everyone just like uh here right to send a waiver when I can yeah you come into our studio because I mean standard business practice Yeah you can you can’t come and you can’t come in and tell people where the studio is yes of course yeah if only for location it would be worth it yeah also because he walks around the pants half the time we have ndas um because we work on projects and in order it’s it’s really really complicated one of the simplest reasons is like we don’t want you leaking information about us location is a good and obvious thing but also projects we’re working on cost a lot of money to do preliminary research if someone then says goes to a competitor or any other Media company says here is what you know Tim Cass is working on all their stuff it just completely destroys the entire attempt things like that of course and you have people stealing you know creative content right I mean that happens anyway this is the most common thing that happens right the big boys they go oh that really works hey let’s do exactly that put 25 million dollars behind it just to promote it now it’s ours perpetuity Clauses really quick before we go to super chats because you brought them up a couple times yeah yeah dog nasty and need to be removed immediately from Modern entertainment contracts Because deep fakes they’re going to be able to take someone’s perpetuity face deep fake it to make it look real and have it say stuff that the person doesn’t agree with by the time I’m dead and you’re going to my Mausoleum I’m going to be Hawking Black Rifle coffee Lord prevent it let’s go to super chats we’re going to read from you guys a lot of questions for uh for Crowder and stuff like that and um you can’t go together you can’t cross streams there’s all there’s multiple bathrooms here but I mean look if you guys want to go together I I have no issue with that no I know yeah promoted by YouTube now all right that’s right that’s right all right all right Co-op the rainbow from God after Noah smash the like button become a member at timcast.com we’re going to record the uncensored portion once we wrap up the live portion which I can only imagine would be a lot crazier but we’re gonna read some of these super chats we have uh from Bren Ben remember guys everyone agrees that you need a shotgun even Biden is pro firing two blasts outside the house please the love of God do not fire a shotgun into the air like highly illegal yeah seriously yeah I can’t believe he Biden incited violence he he he incited people to commit crimes yeah you just want you could shoot it into the ground don’t do that either but that’s the better of the two options he thinks it’s like Elmer Fudd Runner like like by the way just it’s the sillies in that that show I mean sorry that shell that whatever it is whether it’s buck shot or whether it’s a slug has to come down at some point Aurora Isabella says Stephen is so hot well she’s she’s nearsighted or whichever part would make I mean I’m sitting next here to Gerald by the way it’s a little scary like how Giants uh it’s a land of Gerald and then you saw Kevin there downstairs my friend he’s just like he’s like really we have a lot of big people we just went to a Japanese restaurant here nearby like a Japanese Steakhouse yeah and all the reviews were like the food is great the service is terrible we couldn’t all fit in a booth it was difficult you’re at that point when everything’s like to be custom this has been my whole life I know I’m kind of used to it when I shook your hand and met you you stood up as you were doing it like staying careful all right here’s uh Kristen Baker says will Crowder’s company pay his creators guaranteed big money regardless of the revenues they bring in while they let their freak flag fly time out I don’t agree with the premise nobody said it was regardless of revenues you bring in it just said it could not be tied to Big Tech monetization and being on these platforms if you’re bringing in five subscribers versus 500 000 that’s a much different thing yeah and sponsors versus no sponsors that’s a much different thing nobody said that they couldn’t make money and nobody said Stephen had to be given a guarantee production contract no matter what money he brought in they were completely and conveniently leaving that off of the table and saying this is a lot of money and if you lose anything that’s not going to happen to a REV spot with upside right again this is what happens in entertainment Street every time whether it’s abandoned a venue right you do you do a minimum guarantee which is going to be lower which I’m going to get your risk or you get the gate you do a REV split with upside you see any upside there is there anything is there any portion there that says by the way if you actually do have the 300 but which is well over 300 000 people who said we’re going to be in Mud Club if you actually do uh hit that you okay get to share in this is there an upside down negative it’s 100 ownership and by the way they’re the only ones who demanded 100 merge Revenue that’s that’s not even standard so 100 of merch hey you can do the math right now you just saw the sponsors sorry you just saw the live numbers yeah that’s what sponsors know about how much can you guess can be generated from a single sponsor with the kind of numbers you know if you’re doing 1.71.99 per show for 35 minutes what’s the what’s the standard rate it’s like the point is it’s a lawn yeah you don’t have to ask yeah but the point is 100 sponsors 100 subscribers 100 of merch Revenue zero upside but 110 penalty that’s very different the premium Brands charge like a 40 CPM yeah yeah and that’s and then what we found out 10 years ago was their view numbers were inflated because they were buying the rights to garbage Network traffic views that don’t matter and claiming it was a premium view so you you know that what I’m talking about yeah you know it’s a problem in our industry right and you know that then sponsors get changed I think it’s fraud yeah and you know that it happens right yeah yeah so this was a big problem sponsors were like the return Isn’t there and they’re wondering why they start laying all these people off from these digital media companies it’s like look man yeah if the sponsor thinks they’re buying gold standard view but for every one for every 10 views one is gold standard and nine is like clickbait garbage right they’re they’re wasting money and I think it’s right but there must be some concerns who are focusing on quality over quantity right you want one punch knockout power you don’t want to all some people can be volume punchers some people can be power Raiders they need to be able to allow for both that’s all we got a very we got a very important one uh I got we gotta remember uh Northern Liberty Group says can Steven just say one good thing about Canada I’ll take Alberta or anything they’re real conservatives and Patriots up here and we did have a rebellion against the Brits it just failed that’s a big ask a lot now it is but I will say this a lot of people don’t know Bagels came through Montreal first really we’re from but no yeah I’m not saying it’s original but I’m saying I came through Montreal as opposed to New York if not from Montreal there would be no Bagels in North America well that would be better it’s our French Connection yeah no I will say this restaurant at best restaurants in the world in Montreal probably uh pounds per pound and there are a lot of great Canadians uh we could probably get uncensored version it’ll be boring here but if you look at the Quebec separatism a lot of that is very similar to the taxation without representation and a rugged sort of individualistic Spirit but then they also want to have the language police the spaghetti you know spaghetti game this is about a restaurant or a diner yeah it was an Italian restaurant and spaghetti was spaghetti and the language police said wasn’t in French that’s not French it’s Carlos or like it’s Italian like we don’t care spell it spaghetti with an E yes they they said put spin in there but there’s no French for it and they’re like it doesn’t matter you have to have have it in French it was a language police by the way also a lot of French Canadians horribly have you have you seen the skit the language police skit that went viral it’s two guys are like an alley and they’re like talking and the cops walk up and they’re like hey what are you doing and they’re like what like hands against what they’re speaking French they’re like you know against the wall what I reckon it’s it and you know I don’t expect you to be trilingual no but uh they they put the guys up against them and then they’re frisking them and then he’s like he pulls out a bag of weed and goes sorry and he puts it back and then he keeps going and he goes what’s this and he pulls out an English dictionary that’s not mine I swear that sounds about right you know it’s funny actually like you talk about like no I do speak friendships actually I learned to to read and write uh French first I spoke both they thought I was learning disabled they thought I was an idiot up until the fourth grade uh because I had to do if the rule in Canada and it comes from something called Pure land which means pure wool where they want pure French European blood they don’t necessarily do it anymore and end up backfiring because a bunch of Haitians and Vietnamese would come in because you know I speak French and they were like ah Carlos now we have all the they’re about not European French they’re the black from Haiti so they changed their laws but the issue is if you have one parent born in Quebec whether they’re English or not you have to go to French immersion schools so it wasn’t that I was that dumb it’s that I was having to learn geography history math in French and was falling behind and when they finally threw a loophole said hey if you do it as a temporary resident because your dad’s American this principal really did probably save my educational career in grade school fourth grade they switched me to English and then you know I made it to like a B minus student like which means that which means that I won’t be a genius but I won’t be a mass shooter I’m right in the middle of the pack you never hear the guy he was all right we’ll try and grab some more Super chats we have this one from Jeremy Higgins Jordan Peterson’s daughter made a video today talking about negotiating her father’s contract with daily wire she said the wire only owns the content on the site for the length of the time of the contract and afterward it returns to Jordan I believe that sounds incorrect I don’t know I don’t know I do know that Jeremy said these are the terms of everyone and I do know what’s in that contract and I do know they wouldn’t change it Jeremy said if we paid to produce it we own it that would mean that if they don’t produce it I produce it yeah it’s a licensing agreement all of the costs if I were an employee if that’s a salary sure but if all if it’s my product just try something does TriStar own uh I don’t know if home alone I know Home Alone was Colombia and someone else does TriStar own Colombia’s portion of that if they both come in this production you know this right in the entertainment industry it’s very very common for production houses to come together does one get to say no we own it no at that point afterwards it switches maybe you have an agreement and we by the way that’s something that we’ve worked into every contract that we’ve done so I don’t know this is a very very important Jeremy mentioned that everyone has different contracts okay this is very important from Daniel Martin he did say though this these terms the big Tech terms right again it was this is just these are demanded of all creators he said that so so uh just very important here Daniel Mark says Stephen Crowder is the chaotic a good high Charisma Barbarian in Dungeons and Dragons you see some charismatic that’s nice good for sure is that guy likes like Robin Hood oh willing to like evil laws willing to for you know forego evil laws for the betterment I like the analogy of rabbit because people think Robinhood was a socialist no Robin Hood was stealing for the people who over taxed yeah back to the people yes you don’t strike me as a barbarian though uh you know it depends on what I have maybe a barbarian maybe what I have for dinner loud mouth like in the front lines like I’m gonna make noise to get it done no I’m kind of a reluctant we prayed a lot about this before we went down this road like it was it was agonizing like just make you sick kind of decisions because of course you don’t you don’t want to have to do this charismatic maybe you’re a paladin except that for the chaos paladins generally are lawful but uh I don’t know I’m just talking about video games [Laughter] about the moment Ian became self-aware let me read this one from uh Mason’s Mama Tim is not asking the hard questions Crowder lacks Integrity name one Creator Crowder launched he has done the exact opposite not gay Jared Sven yeah they were on the show early on we’ve had plenty of people who work on the show and then move on that happens Acro that happens across the board I mean I’m not again you don’t have I used to we used to talk about this we used to have pride in like this super super high retention rate where no one would leave but then we realized that like people sometimes it doesn’t it’s just not always the right fit and people can go on and do something that they’re more happy with um again we did a whole send-off with knockajo we’ve had other people too who’ve been on sometimes it’s amicable sometimes it’s not sometimes those are issues but not gauger’s case the guy left and I wish the guy the best he tweeted it out so again this is the problem right this is this is the problem with people gaslighting it’s attacking of the left and there’s going to be four on one it’s going to happen no matter what I’m I’m calling it now just like I called what was about to happen and they’re going to shift the narrative to something else and they’re going to rope other people in and this is why people don’t speak out it’s why good people don’t run for office think about the stormy Daniel which by the way I have no idea with Donald Trump but so many people came out in so many stories that were proven verifiably false it’s slinging mud it’s personal it’s not what you hear me do it’s this can all end we all just pledge we’re not going to do the enforcement of Big Ten no one is perfect at least about me at 9 10 I launched a poll at uh eight o’clock I launched a poll what time is it right now it’s crazy right uh who is Right 36 minutes ago 62 000 votes Crowder 63 daily wire 17 with 20 abstaining from the vote how long ago was that this was uh 36 minutes ago with 62 421 votes I abstain pretty good example so I don’t think anyone’s right no that’s the thing I mean there are genuinely a lot of people who are like you know they may not like what the daily wire is doing but they like that it’s a cultural force in the other direction do we need you know we need both I do think we need these these monolithic centralized systems in coordinates with decentralized content creators and eventually they’ll start licensing work and stuff and I understand just don’t say you’re fighting big Tech but you made a good point uh Gerald about not you I’m talking about people in 10 years it should be solidified that there’s no competition and then they go the other direction let me read this one because I have to agree kid truck says don’t give money often but the quote we know what’s in the box killed me nearly choked on my coffee a Crowder mug hope eventually the hostilities can settle and ladder with Crowder can show that standing on principle can be profitable the what’s in the box was was I wrote I wrote down the time Johnny boy that you met downstairs now yeah uh there were that was this well that was the hardest I’d ever seen him laugh this that one’s the second artist the second artist the second artist again I’m not until but when Ben was saying like you know Stephen Crowder betrayed and he’s a piece of and all of a sudden like and I have to tell you about Birch gold he was laughing so hard when that happened it was the Box comment that was the second heart I’m like John what are you laughing at he’s like they had to do live reads um and like during the during the rants yeah and there’s nothing wrong again there’s nothing wrong with people who do radio on TV right yeah and doodle there’s another but again you know that’s not I can’t do four or five commercials the way we do them each day whether it’s a good ranch or commercial whether it’s a whole film series you know Walter we’ve done a parody of every major horror film and it’s you know horror films don’t work when you have a wall through we can’t do that and do it five times a day and it fell into fears like look we just we’re just saying hey more people pay far far more for one spot just let us keep doing the sketches the kind of material that people have invested in and it’s this is the model well there needs to be no I’m not saying that can’t be a model though you can’t enforce big Tech I’m saying that there can’t only be one model for everyone because we’re not all that way and then we about how the power that Hollywood has because they allow creatives the ability to be creative and it really is look there is more at divert and I’m just talking about diversity as far as you know hitting the right demographics I’m talking about people doing different kinds of content we’re the only ones doing what we do and I would love to see 10 more people doing it and I see it as a huge win that Ben was streaming on on Rumble today huge um and I would if he comes over on Rumble and by the way not just Rumble but do both and just cleans our clock I would I hope there’s 10 more of them and 10 more of me I’m glad to see it and I I still would love to just don’t say you’re fighting big Tech when you’re enforcing big Tech by mandate that’s David David Minier says I’m happy to spend 100 to tell Crowder he’s a whiny baby daily wire won this fight wasn’t even close okay you spent a hundred dollars yeah yeah and then you made that money yes that’s a win good for you 75 of it or something seventy dollars YouTube Took 30. good for you more or more you take a lot from the super chats so that should change too with these platforms all the revenue all the super chat revenues directly to you you know when I read the one word said I’m asking not asking hard questions I’m not here to to ignore people who have criticisms and want their voices to be heard um I wanna I wanna make sure this is a substantive conversation and I read if people are happy or unhappy sure Thomas says Brett Cooper the youngest employee said she doesn’t have the demonetization penalties it seems to invalidate Crowder’s Point wakanda said that she recognized the Clauses in her own contract and Jeremy said that they are in the contract and this is the one thing they’ve never addressed it Beyond well we have to make money but again how are you making money off of some penalizing someone being demonetized when they haven’t been monetized for years when they come in so it’d be one thing if everyone said it they said at the top no this is for everybody Candace said I recognize those contracts those Clauses in the contract Brett Cooper saying it’s not if that’s the case great but that was a sticking point here that was never there was no offer after that and it just if someone said hey sure we can change this great that’s not what we said yeah and you saw the transcript you know it wasn’t set you know it was this is how we do it did you guys have um access to all your mug Club subscribers and like the number of them and all that before you went into talks did you have that data because I would have based my entire contract off of that not how long are you going to be monetized that’s our biggest that was our biggest problem was that we we didn’t have a real good way that’s why we had to launch mug Club forever is to make sure that we had everybody who wanted to it was in mug club or wanted to sign up for it and we could reach out to those people it’s industry standard where they don’t tell you and they don’t even necessarily have to tell you your number it doesn’t have to be um but that’s why I showed you know um Tim some numbers that are off the Record where you can do an estimate and yeah absolute basement Baseline minimum is yeah that’s because Blaze had to on the contract with blaze said they’re gonna keep that data and so only they knew is that what well I can address that we’re not going to address necessarily specific terms that were in that contract because if you sign in on if you sign something that says you want to talk about it right it don’t yeah it’s not the case of the term exactly right so I’ll make the claims it looks that happened I don’t know uh well you know you can enter in your email mug clever so we don’t lose touch with you but we had a good idea based on Gerald you can I think this is the thing right this is the problem with contracts and I understand there’s a big difference between an NDA and you’re asking it is I will say this it is industry standard I don’t know of any except for you know Rumble tweeted that out I don’t know how it works with locals where they said you you I think they said if you get generate subscribers you can take your subscribers they’re yours to begin with they’re never the companies uh from what I understand there uh but industry standard is it’s very it’s opaque by Design yeah yeah I think the only the only company that can actually offer the deal that you keep your members is Rumble yeah yeah so uh I think you know rumble’s doing a bunch of deals with people and I’m pretty sure those deals are while we have you signed the revenue comes to us when the term ends the membership revenue is yours yeah it’s it’s a part of your account that you own and we’ve no longer licensed it for these other companies there’s no way to effectively take a portion of your members and put them on a different website right yeah well that’s also what you’re doing with this sort of decentralized tool that you’re discussing right sort of solves that problem a little bit Yeah the front end part of it like rumbles the great thing is it’s a back-end service where it hosts like daily wire I don’t think they have a host do they host their own data you guys don’t know I don’t know yeah so that’s challenging if you’re not if you’re just a front-end facility that you’re just kind of making money off the personalities themselves not the actual data but if you control the data then you can give it back to people and this I want to try just read as many as we can uh we the people says I ABS I was abstain in the poll earlier but the second uh second half I voted now in favor of Stephen Crowder fight back yeah so this is interesting uh when the story first broke we did a poll 85 percent Crowder is Right very small percentage in favor of the daily wire we didn’t have the abstain in It Candace Owens comes on the show it then dropped down to like 55 to 60 Crowder is Right 40 or so percent daily wire is right we did the show today obviously you guys erected a lot of your fans to the show so there’s a big swing in your favor but the second poll more dramatically swung in your face well so did the most yeah the biggest most powerful conservative Network in the world according to how they you know their press releases daily wear I would assume that when their people come on it would be the same thing I shouldn’t even here’s the thing here’s the I shouldn’t even be in the same ballpark well you guys are saying like Hey how do you think like you know I’m I’m coming I’m a bum these other when we’re talking about VidCon they’re just worse bums in other words there’s such a dearth of creative content out there that I’m even within Striking Distance with no seed money certainly not multi-millionaires or billionaires front loading it it shouldn’t even be close and I can tell you now live number hey Tim let me ask you this what’s the toughest number to cheat when you’re talking about like people adding people oh you can’t you can’t cheat the lot look when it comes to like uh uh you could buy a YouTube video in fact anyone can advertise any YouTube video right you can go on Google ads take a video from some random little kid pay for a hundred thousand ten thousand views if you want and that kid will have no idea it happened that would be a great gift I mean it’s a curse no I mean it’s a Make-A-Wish no but uh yeah yeah you know and we used to we used to do that of course like where you could run videos just through Google AdSense right we’ve been barred for a very long time from doing that and I want to be clear I have no problem none whatsoever with people advertising I think I want more conservatives to have advertising budgets because I want us to out fight the left I have no problem with people choosing and it’s a strategy to be monetized on YouTube I think at a certain point when you look at the advertiser guidelines which are very different from the content guidelines they include you could be demonetized for controversial topics sensitive issues that’s a re I don’t even want to say it’s a slippery slope they’ve already covered everything under that with their umbrella don’t have a problem with someone making that decision I only have a problem when you tell people that you are fighting back and they are expecting it and investing and you’re not and you’re demanding that everybody else do it the same way as you do there’s only one side demanding that we get rid of that I’ll go on a press tour for all these companies you I mean it get rid of the punitive mandates against conservative content creators period as a matter of policy we’re done here forever David Casada says I’m so exciting chats trying to find a good question like there’s always some big something that’s there either the payment services with I mean we got parallel economy which is like Dan bongino’s new payment Service Company it’s probably better than PayPal and stripe I don’t know if it’s better than stripe I don’t know um yeah if you get pissed off I want to have the creators of stripe on the show come on guys and let’s talk about I got I want to read these these two David says I’m so glad Steven came out about this because many leaders in the church use and abuse other Christians they try to use the term use them they try to use them as volunteers then they offer super low tiered payment options a big problem too is there’s a huge unlike the left there’s far too much influence from non-profits on the conservative side and a lot of these this is another big part a part of big con that we haven’t even gotten into you have a lot of these companies and this is not I’m not saying daily daily wire again there are a lot of companies where they have a non-profit wing and we all know there’s a big difference between a 501c3 and a 501c4 and the audits that have taken place because what happens is the non-profit money of donors go in there but then that’s used in some way to help generate content where they collect the profit and yeah it does happen in churches Gerald you know that too um where it’s like it’s non-profit unfortunately someone is profiting at some point so we do need to uncal we need to uncouple we need to divest from this undue influence of not of just non-profits and we need to divest from doing big text bidding here’s here’s one from the new future from two copper says I am a daily wire subscriber and I was under the impression that my money was helping to protect their message from the predation of big Tech sensors as a subscriber my trust was what was betrayed that’s an interesting point um the one thing I brought to people is like look whether you agree or disagree with crowd if there’s a question of why penalize someone for losing YouTube for for using YouTube access when the goal is to build a subscription business exactly at some point at some point that should be the goal does Netflix say to their show creators if your show gets pulled from YouTube we’re cutting your fees despite the fact we charge 10 bucks a month for them to watch it on Netflix do you think Netflix charges Winona Ryder if the stranger things Premiere doesn’t do well again that’s that’s impermissible it’s not even legal in the entertainment industry how can you be how can you run a business and not incur any risk that is income it’s coming upon you where it’s like what should we take the risk yes yes you’re running the business that’s what being a business owner is right you sink or swim you eat what you kill yes not the CR not the not the employee or in the case of an actual independent production house you don’t penalize them for something that they weren’t making in the first place yes you do incur some risk and in this scenario it was a no risk situation why would you why would you build it this way right we’ve talked about this like you built your career on YouTube is the argument that people use right last three years unmonetized it’s like yes we’re trying to use we’re trying to speak the most truth to the greatest number of people possible it’s not we can’t just all have behind the paywall honest conversations right because then you don’t affect people at the biggest possible you know tech company out there so do that but don’t go so far as to play by this additional set of rules that really restricts what you’re able to say creators yeah we have um we have only like one other real show it’s him cast right uh like live shot I’m saying tails in the inverted World exists Jane Cashman does amazing writing work but we have pop culture Crisis 3 P.M Monday through Friday I believe Brett uh dasovich and Mary Morgan host the show it is a very very similar format to this except they have money guns when you Super Chat money shoots in the air and then every hundred thousand super chats if the sirens go off and the money sprays like crazy that’s why I signed a waiver that was very lengthy it’s very dangerous but um we I have no contractor policy with them about suspension or Banning if if they got pulled from YouTube we’d be like I guess you’re on I guess you’re on Rumble yeah and like there’s no you’d be fine with it there’s nothing wrong with choosing to be monetized there’s nothing wrong with you making that choice or any other Creator out there making that choice with somebody enforcing it I’m saying like I have no policy for that I’m not right their pay doesn’t change yeah the structures like we we are investing in the creation of this show and we’ve got it it’s going to take the form that it has to take uh obviously they’re better off on YouTube in terms of growth but uh sure we’re we’re also we got them on Apple and Spotify and Google and all the podcast platforms and I’d actually rather grow that market than YouTube I don’t care about YouTube you know I agree podcast way better that’s when I get excited too like when our numbers switched from uh the vast majority on YouTube you know to it’s splitting and then to the point where it tipped and rumbles favor you know I come out and when they tell me that when we’re doing I get really excited you know when we do those like the 300 I think it was was it 350 it was like three before the servers crashed and rumble’s not a perfect company level but we don’t like strengthen the server so like yeah we got it like I don’t think you fully got it uh but um that was more exciting than having whatever we had half a million 600 000 on YouTube I get that you want to hit critical mass on YouTube but it is exciting to we’ve talked about this for years when you’re at a point where you can actually be a brother in arms brother sister Z in arms um with people who are flipping it to the French government with people who are saying no we practice what we preach not saying only be on Rumble but isn’t that exciting that there is at least some kind of viable alternative where you can get enough views now that you can make a living that’s a big development and that’s also proof of Concepts that we don’t have to do business the way that people in the big con side say is a requirement at some point I’m gonna have to pee I’m gonna read uh just two more two more Super chats floating eyeball all right first game over says I’m canceling my timcast subscription for the CNN talking to Biden level of softballing oh come on no that’s fine um look if if what hard question did we Dodge well I mean what did you not ask us that people were talking about but yeah about this topic I mean I don’t know I think I’ve said it over and over again that I ideologically agree with Stephen uh I disagree tactically to a certain extent like the recording of the phone call yeah but yeah am I going to scold you on the show and be like how dare you Stephen or am I going to be like tell me why you did it well no I understand like you said they say betraying a friend I say the Betrayal first off has been taking place for years to betraying the movement the people who support you and invest you the first portrayal in the sequence of events was the term sheet the term sheet and yeah what you saw now with going after Talent right create behind the scenes poaching people I can only show you one I could tell you there’s a lot more but that guy said it’s okay to show it hopefully that provides a little bit more I think we had a respectful and cordial discussion I think some people are asking if it was the agent or you that counter offered that’s what people are asking so they went from my understanding what the agent is they said okay here’s a number and this is 100 of everything and uh my agent was unbelievable he’s just again he’s left the big agencies he’s gay he’s Latino and he’s to the right of Attila the Hun he’s Cuban he also doesn’t like Puerto Ricans but that’s all they have to ask about because it’s hilarious because he can get away with it um where he said well if you want 100 of everything here you go Jeremy said right we started low we would have gone a lot higher this is Contracting if you’re talking about the money part he said if you 100 everything this is the number it’s higher but these are the non-starters we were very clear these are the non-starters there was never anything suggested that got rid of the non-starters and that’s the part where you start to lose faith and I frankly to my Everlasting shame felt like oh well you know there’s no hope here if this is these are the non-stars and this is in every Clause we’ll grab one more Super Chat so then uh Steven go urinate Peter Piper says I agree with everything Crowder is saying about the offer being bad how does he justify this is good for conservatism by creating schisms it’s like he is throwing out the baby with the bath water changed my mind I can I would have agreed three years ago maybe yeah or this has been happening for a long time when you sit down and they go nope nope this is how it has to be at a certain point do I believe that the conservative movement is better off now when you know and you see behind the curtain that these are the kinds of terms that cannot be changed by their own words to all major content creators out there no I wouldn’t have been able to create what I’ve created you know Tim that you wouldn’t have been able to have created what you have created under these kinds of terms and no one else will be able to if it continues this way we will continue to lose and the public we’ll be surprised and dumbfounded how we snatch defeat from the jaws of Victory well the last thing I’ll say is I had conversation with the daily wire and ultimately we decided it wasn’t going to work the difference between my Approach and your approach is that I just said look I’m gonna go build my own thing best of luck I appreciate the work you do I don’t wouldn’t want to do business in the way you do it but that’s your business not mine and that’s all I did you know what I mean yeah and I understand it uh at a certain point it’s like you can move on and just tilt the rearview mirror away to the wreckage I’m not saying that that’s the same case with you I don’t know what the terms are for you but in this case based on what you see there it’s fundamentally immoral and I think again who does it hurt hurts the sponsors it hurts the investors it hurts the viewers and it hurts the creators and that ultimately hurts the country and hurts the movement if you say you’re fighting big Tech fight Let’s uh let’s do this I’ll I’ll talk to you guys a little bit more about uh some of the offers that we’ve received and how they work and why they don’t play out I’ll get a little bit more into the um the terms I was offered by various companies we’ll explain that in the members only show so go to timcast.com if you aren’t already click the join us button sign up we’re gonna have an uncensored members only show I’ll talk a little bit more about the inner workings of the deals and I’ll talk as much as I can about what I’ve been offered and why I said no and then I’ll ask Stephen how he really feels so again go to timcast.com become a member they can go to Louisville February 10th uh and uh you know but it’ll all be based on jokes I’ll say this follow the show you can follow the show at timcast.com you can follow me at timcast again timcast.com for the uncensored show I’ll post the link on YouTube after the show reps do you guys want to promote anything shut anything out before you before you go uh no I mean the thing is we’re doing I will say the owner of this guy he owns like Louisville uh Oklahoma uh City I think and a bunch of comedy clubs you know because they booked six months out he actually made it possible where I was able to buy the headliner for that week and like pay his fee to be able to do this because you know this all kind of happened last minute so uh yeah a lot of credit.com tour where uh you know an hour and a half every night uncensored we’ll just keep adding shows doing smaller venues so we can’t do the theaters until probably next quarter but it’s always fun and I think the people who watch this know you better than they know me anyway louder with Crowder is your show Stephen Crowder on YouTube at s Crowder on Twitter Gerald do you want to shout out any socials or G Morgan Jr these very very milk toast he’s very kind if he gets mad it’s it’s a little upset mildly portrait yeah okay is that your Twitter account what was that was that again at gmorganjr thank you guys so much for coming and having a cordial respectful dialogue and discussion here in the beginning of this broadcast I told everyone about my new Venture and website I’m the real og.com and as soon as I did my web guy told me we were DDOS yeah yes don’t worry you could have your Taco Bell and we won’t know anything about it but we were ddosed and the website was down in the beginning of this broadcast it is now back up uh I’m the real og.com and I’m gonna miss you guys this was a fun crazy last show uh I’m gonna be doing meetups lots of fun exciting projects uh first dibs are going to be members on Lucan sensor.com best way to get in touch with me Lucan censored.com see you there and uh holy cow this was fun I’m going to be in Florida for a while and uh you guys keep up the great work Ian real quick I want to give a shout out to Mark Dice and just apologize because I know uh I know Mark he super chatted a bunch YouTube deleted the first hour of super chats because that’s what they do what at a certain we get too many oh at a certain portion it just starts they just start disappearing yeah and then there’s one one thing we can do and we can we can go into the back end and try and start scrolling through and pulling them back up but the it’s it’s difficult what we need to do especially as we get into the new studio space look we don’t even have a headphone dial like like volume control for the guests it’s just all done by Kellen or Sergio whoever’s at the command like control so we like we’re trying to continually up and improve get to that point one thing we’re going to do is we’re going to have super chats grabbed during the show so we don’t miss anything especially big ones but uh Mark uh shout out and apologies you know uh he I mean I I can’t that’s why I brought up his Super Chat because I saw the super chats at the beginning and I mentioned his super chat so he got his money’s worth Mark you got it I mentioned it I talked about it in some ways but um again thank you guys so much for dealing with me and having me here I really appreciate it yeah it’ll sink in after you leave how sad it is that you’re gone but I’m happy that you’re doing what you love you know moving on I appreciate it um thank you Gerald great to see you man yeah Stephen always a pleasure I think he’s in the bathroom what you guys pull up mug Club forever.com yeah so again this is not an information site this isn’t like hey stay up to date on what’s going on it’s if you want to join Mud Club or you’re a member of Mud Club already mugclub forever.com and your email address you will not get any emails other than one that says here’s what we’re doing and here’s how to sign up thanks again for coming guys yeah I miss it um we’re still going thanks uh again I’m Kellen PDL thanks guys for having me uh Gerald Steven I’ve been watching you guys for Years love what you guys do keep fighting the good fight and Luke I’m gonna be I’m gonna be missing you I remember that for like one of the first days I started here like hey we have to get the stuff out of the attic Luke’s coming I’m like oh boy here we go and it seems like yesterday and you’re already leaving for sunny Miami so time flies by when you’re talking about the parks department being horrible along with the IRS and the FBI and all these other Federal institutions Maxwell came out today we might might hopefully after show all right uh everybody head over to timcast.com for the members only show we will see you all there

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